Manchester Arena Incident

The world has gone mad
Poor poor victims

I don't generally use the word "evil" seriously. But today I am. This was pure evil. Targeting innocent people is bad enough, but children? Evil and unforgivable!

I live in Manchester and am in two minds about not discussing politics today.
One the one hand, yes it seems like a mark of respect,
but on the other hand it means that we have allowed the bomber to influence our behaviour.

Terrorists don't have much respect for Islam, as most Muslims know it. As I wrote before, they're actually rejecting the teachings of their parents and grandparents.

Terrorism is a psychological and political act as much as it is religious.

I don't feel that the vast majority of Muslims are responsible for terrorists any more than I am responsible for Jo Cox's murderer, the Norwegian mass murderer, the KKK or Britain First, just because we all happen to be white and nominally Christian.

So, so sad. There should be nowhere safer than a concert attracting so many families and young teenagers.
Our son was there with his 9year old daughter, the ticket was a Christmas gift for her.
They left 5 minutes before the explosion via the very exit that it happened. They may have even walked past him!
They are both very shaken and subdued this morning thinking of the poor families and children who were not so lucky.

I heard this on FB last night from a friend who lives near Manchester. Appalling act, I had never heard of singer but believe she appeals to teenagers & younger girls.Many had tickets that were bought as Birthday/Christmas presents

My heart goes out to the families of the dead & injured

I know that members of many faith communities in Manchester were involved in helping the victims - I would have expected nothing less. I know it is a warm community - I have family there.

It would be lovely if there were a Muslims for Peace Day each year with marches and festivals around the country that we could all join in with and show our solidarity with the community that we are behind them in the fight to root out these terrorists - or indeed the vulnerable members of their community who become corrupted.

It needs to be "out there" and loud and clear. Much more than it is at the moment. Sadly I fear that the Muslim community Might be afraid that they would not be supported or become targets. What a mess for us all.

I have just heard that none of my Manchester GC's friends have been involved - I knew the GC were not there - that is a relief to us. But we must all be grieving for those less fortunate. It does not bear thinking about.

Luckygirl it does depend on what papers you read/media you listen to. Early this morning I read the Guardian article on this atrocity and when they got to the section where they where quoting key leaders' responses they wrote this right at the beginning: 'Leaders representing different faiths condemned the attack. Harun Khan, secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “This is horrific, this is criminal. May the perpetrators face the full weight of justice both in this life and the next.” ' before going on to quote the others.

Also don't overlook the opening of mosques by the Sikh community for those needing shelter and refuge last night too. Manchester is standing together in support.

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Luckygirl do you believe in 'collective guilt'?

Those who shout loudest are not necessarily sincere (ref Trump).

Many of the cab drivers who were providing free journeys were Muslims, judging from their names, as no doubt were many of the emergency services/NHS staff who are caring for the victims.

Many on GN are of Irish descent - how many of them took to the streets/media at each atrocity?

My daughter, who lives in Manchester, has a boyfriend from a Muslim Yemeni background. They both donated blood this morning.

I doubt very much whether condemnation from the Muslim "community" (whoever they might be, because Muslims areas different as Christians) would have much effect. My understanding from my possibly future SIL is that some young Muslims reject the ideas of their parents, just as many teenagers do. Manchester is relatively successfully integrated and some young Muslims see that their parents' generation has given into Western ideas and they are rebelling.

For what it's worth Luckygirl I understand what you were saying , I think you made a valid well written point. Perhaps they do ,but it doesn't get reported. Or perhaps the media don't ask for their opinions.It seems that these atrocities seem to be carried out by lone wolves & that is immensely difficult to predict or control. Perhaps the answer lies in searching people before they enter an arena if it is practical to do , it certainly seems necessary.

chrissyh - there have been numerous demonstrations by members of the Muslim community against acts what you call the perversion of their faith. Many have been featured in the media.
Manchester is a diverse city with inhabitants from all creeds, colours and faith who largely live easily side by side. The perpetrators of these disgusting incidents of mass murder want to disrupt communities and cause further separation between us,
The attacks in Egypt and Tunisia effectively put an end to the tourist trade in those countries. No doubt making it easier to recruit desperate young people with little hope of making a living now.
We must stand together and avoid expecting our ordinary Muslim neighbours to apologise for the behaviour of psychopaths in their midst.

Such a terrible incident and so many innocent young people enjoying what should have been a family night out together my heart goes out to all the families concerned.
What I have found shocking this morning is that there is a two car Police presence at the building that is used as the Local Mosque not too far away from where we live it really brings home the reality of what has happened and what could happen if people turn against the Local Muslim Community some who have lived locally for years and been well thought of neighbours and shop owners.

My DD and GDD were there at a concert last week. It doesn't bear thinking about. My heart goes out to all those parents still waiting for news

My thoughts and prayers are with all of the poor families affected today - it is beyond sad

You are very brave Luckygirl and as soon as I read it I knew you would be castigated. Luckygirl did not ask the Muslim community to apologise but merely to condemn the actions of those Muslims who carry out these atrocities. There are many demonstrations in this country against racism, rightly so, but I have never seen a demonstration by the Muslim community against the 'perversion', as Luckygirl calls it, of the Muslim religion.

Going to put on my tin helmet to ward off the flak.

I think you are missing the point annie Muslims have not done it; but it looks as though someone using that faith as a justification has done it. That concerns me enormously, as it would if it were a Methodist or any other community whose doctrines were being twisted to such evil ends.

I am not asking peace-loving Muslims to "apologise" - I am asking that their condemnation should be very very visible and loud and in our faces so that corruptible young people who are sadly sucked in to this misery can hear it loud and clear. As I said - this needs tackling from within and without the community.

It involves non-Muslim communities too in reaching out to this beleagured community whose beliefs are being corrupted in such an evil way. In reassuring them that, yes we do want to hear their voice loud and clear and that they would have our support in this; both as individuals and as the media.

Rosina. Who then in your book classifies as 'these' people.
Any human being who can take the lives of others, especially the young who have the world in front of them, is one of 'these' people.Regardless of colour or religion.
They are simply the runts of society, deluded, mentally impaired and with grudges. The drop outs. Easily picked out for indoctrination that for once in their sad lives makes them feel ten feet tall and believing they are important.

Luckygirl, may I suggest you start a thread questioning why Muslims are not apologising for something they have not done .

Yes Penstemmon - that was the one reference that I found. The press are indeed the mediators of what we hear, and we are right to be concerned about bias and selectivity.

It is not just about rogue elements - the perpetrators are justifying their actions with reference to Islam, and those who understand the true spirit of that religion must be sickened by this. For my part I would like their condemnation to be louder and more visible. That is a valid opinion. Are there ways in which we might facilitate that by contacting the media?

My heart goes out to the people so sad and distressing. Those poor families who have lost loved ones it so devastating.
Wicked evil people that can do that especially as there are children as young as 10 have attended.

It is NOT annie - I have expressed my concern for the Muslim community and for those Muslim children who could have been involved in this atrocity. Do you not feel that this community needs to be loud in its condemnation? I understand how hard that is for them - no-one likes to feel that there are such inhuman people in their midst, when their doctrine is one of peace; but there needs to be a two-pronged attack from within and without the community to fight this horror which effects us ALL.

Of course I share the sorrow for the dead and injured and their families - that is entirely clear. But we cannot just be sad; we need to think hard about how this is being dealt with, so that we can stop others finding themselves in this appalling situation.

I have no easy answers any more than anyone else does - I just feel angry at the corruption of a peaceful faith into this carnage and wonder why voices from that community are not louder. I had to search hard for these condemnations today and fund only one.

How can we get these faiths to work together with other faiths and people of none to get the right message across to disaffected and vulnerable young people?

Varian.Many many including GN will not be personally affected by the dreadful events in Manchester.That is not to say we cannot grieve with and for them.
GN is for all grans and grandads Are you implying then we should 'close down' our comments for the day like we were in a campaign of sorts.How insensitive.I am too far away to offer personal help but my thoughts go out to the people of Manchester.They are not alone. It could happen to anyone of us.