Is it too late for a U turn on Brexit or at least watering it down?

Just listening to a local Tory mp Tim Laughton - talking about Brexit -he's either genuinely doesn't understand or he is lying - it is disgraceful.

Johnson has been in Eastbourne today. Called the debate last night all a load of "caterwauling cockatoos" perhaps he forgot Rudd took part.

He also said which made me really grin that Labour had no understanding of things like single market and the customs union. what an idiot

Today's good news for brexiteers.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/31/nhs-faces-500m-a-year-bill-post-brexit-for-returning-retirees-says-thinktank

I suppose if we do not have an NHS by then, it won't matter, will it?

Me too whitewave. I try to be positive and then it all hits again. The only thing that will expand under a May regime will be charities.

I find it terribly depressing and worrying. Not only have we got Brexit and a hopeless government, but also the horror that is Mays manifesto.

Who knows what she actually thinks Jen. Remember she voted to stay in (we were told). Perhaps she would do as varian said and decide we should stay in if she couldn't get an acceptable deal and then tell us 'nothing has changed'. If she gets in there will be no point in thinking about what will happen, families will just need to survive because she may change her mind - or she may not; she may be strong and stable or change direction and be weak and wobbly.

Who knows, who could possibly know.

I have always thought that a deal needs two sides negotiating to arrive at a deal - the pathway to exiting the EU is for the Country who is doing the exiting to be TOLD by the remaining countries what the conditions of them leaving are - that was all announced with the info about A50. So of the U.K gets any requests in at all it will be a bonus - a bit like anyone being allowed to ask TM an off the cuff question!

I only wish May thought like that, varian.
I wonder if she really wants to punish people who voted for Brexit. Unfortunately it will be the rest of us as well.

The clear choice at the end of the negotiations should be "this deal or no deal", meaning stay in the EU, with all the many advantages we do not want to lose, not "this deal or something even worse"

That is the choice that the Liberal Democrats would put to the people when, and only when, they know what the deal involves.

gg that of course is the worse case scenario.

But i think it makes clear that the no deal mantra is ridiculous

Thank you, I think (no, thank you seriously) whitewave. Sadly the name Cassandra springs to mind.

I doubt it will be that bad as there would, presumably, be knock on effects for other countries, so they would try to mitigate it a little but there would be a price for that. I do think it can be much, much worse than many/most realise.

She's trying to kid every Tory voter who never listens, just votes the same way.

The same way she is kidding them about her being strong and stable enough to negotiate the Brexit deal. It will not be her or Corbyn.
It will probably be Davis, or Johnson, or Starmer.
I know which of those I want to negotiate on our behalf.

Sorry the reference should have been Dunt, not Dunc!!!

So who is she kidding?

"The Prime Minister and Government Ministers repeat the mantra that "no deal is better than a bad deal", signalling they would be prepared to walk away from Brexit negotiations.

Theresa May has relaunched her election campaign, with this claim now at its centre. However, in the Tories' own words, if we fail to get a deal "the consequences for Britain and for the economic security of ordinary working people will be dire."

It's clear: a no deal scenario will hurt jobs, our economy and the livelihoods of hardworking British families, and must be stopped at all costs, and yet Theresa May is prepared to consider this eventuality."

Even the Tories say that no deal will be a disaster. The quote in the second paragraph is from Conservative Central HQ.

"Britain can prevent the above from happening

All it requires is an intelligent ministerial team, a workable timetable, hundreds of trade experts, a restrained political debate and economic calm.

Britain has none of these things.

The leading figures in the ministerial team handling Brexit do no seem to understand the obstacles they must overcome, or the profound consequences of failure.

They have misunderstood the Eu, misunderstood the WTO, misunderstood Article 50, misunderstood the economy and the legal framework in which they must now operate"

May is keen though, and as she appears to listen to no one it is a case of hard cheese.

I don't think I want the US to assist. They'll want too much in exchange for holding hands.

Scary isn't it ww?

I think I need a lie down now!

Britains closest allies are wary of opening talks with the U.K. Without knowing what it's final status will be with either Europe or the WTO.

Britain will be in a position of unique and historic vulnerability.

The US is prepared to assist, just like May says they would. But the UK must be prepared to accept all its demands, just as May said we would.

What are they?

Consumer protection are reduced across the board
Protection for the environmental regulations are drastically reduced.
The NHS and its safeguards are gone.

This is what the mantra " no deal is better than a bad deal" means

Reference.

I Dunc 2016

Well it seems to me that if this worse case "no deal is better than a bad deal" scenario happens we will have so much to worry about the NHS will be in such high demand it will collapse under the strain.

Haven't come to the NHS yet.

So let's look at the WTO so beloved by the Brexiters.

So off we go to the WTO.

The problem is though that there are no rules that govern what Britain has done.

Britain has been trading under the EU umbrella fotr decades. Now it tries to extract its tariff and subsidy arrangements from the EU and lay them before the rest of the WTO.

In response the EU initiates a formal dispute. This starts to avalanche. The WTO rules allow any country that feels it has been unfairly treated to trigger a dispute.

The EU arrangement preventing cheap steel from China is Britain claims still Party to . China reacts furiously.

British professionals in Europe find that they can no longer practice because their qualifications are no longer recognised.
No deal has been out in place for legal rulings, so decisions on for example divorce, child maintenance are not recognised.
Regulation fails. Pharmacy are thrown into chaos.

I want to know what he thinks will happen to the NHS, if we will have one then.

The £ begins a further slide, and British bond price rises. Foreign investment falls further.
The deficit begins to look unsustainable, and ironically immigration declines. The economy is tanking.
2019 will be seen in future as the beginning of Britains decline.

But what about the WTO I hear you cry!