A Labour Government.

Why is it very sad Celia? As a Labour supporter you believe a Labour gov. will be better than a Conservative or any other political party's gov. but that is your opinion.

There are goodness knows how many Conservative GP's who have a care for the GC's futures, what right do you have to suggest that any GP who votes for TM and her gov., or anyone other than Labour is putting their personal interests before their GC?

Smileless, surely you wouldn't let your vote be swayed by the attitude of a few Gransnet keyboard warriors? A couple of the Labour supporters on here do their cause no good at all, and I have been subject to casual nastiness from them on other threads. There are similar posters on the other side of the divide, by the way. Do you really think for instance that SAAK's sweeping comment about council workers doing Jack Shite and being paid for it is fair or reasonable? It's possibly as rude and nasty as any other on here.

I'm interested in intelligent debate, and have enjoyed your contributions to the thread, whether or not I agree with them.

It is very sad that the majority of over-seventy-fives apparently are still planning to vote Conservative, despite the horrifying record of this Government and their even worse plans for the future. Young people know their future is at stake and are planning to vote Labour. How can we get older people to look at the facts? Even if you want to think of yourself rather than your grandchildren, it is in your own interest to vote Labour, given the Conservatives current plans.

I will add another question to Celia's and Smileless's posts about the attitudes displayed in the many political threads. Is massive contempt for the intellectual or emotional intelligence, data-based or from gut reaction, of any other point of view a feature of a party manifesto, or just a personal foible of a few vocal posters?

If it is taken from a party manifesto, I shall take care not to vote that party into power, as I don't want to be lined up against a wall and shot, or placed in a locked ward for the politically non-conformist. However, I suspect it is from personal intolerance, and would also be in evidence on any other subject.

No you wont get them dj I'm not going to waste my time because you wouldn't take any notice of them anyway. Of course you don't care if I never vote Labour again, you don't care about anyone else's opinion unless it's the same as your own.

Well of course I only have one vote as do you but who knows how many possible Labour voters have been discouraged from casting their vote in that direction because of the nastiness on this thread.

Well said, Celia.

I'm not judging the caliber of SAAK's posts as poor or otherwise angelab she expressed her opinion as is her right. You may not have agreed with what she says, you may not think she expressed herself very well but she certainly shouldn't have been responded too in the way she was by some posters.

Are the rude an offensive responses she received the type of posts you approve of?

Somehow, I don't think we'll get them, and I don't think we'll care if you never vote Labour again.
Like everybody else, you just have one vote.

It is very frustrating for people who like rational argument to be shouted down by people who don't want to look at facts and are determined to stand by their views, whatever evidence is presented. But we should all try to keep our tempers. this election is about the futures of our children and grandchildren. Do we want them to be saddled by enormous university debts; do we want them to have to live in tiny expensive flats because they can't save for a mortgage on a reasonably priced house; do we want them to have to pay for their healthcare on the American model; do we want them to have to claim benefits to have enough to live on, even though they are working full-time? Labour offers a better programme, and yes, taxes will rise for the richest. I hardly think Phillip green and his ilk will notice the loss of a few thousand a year though, whereas our grandchildren will benefit enormously.

Smileless, could we have some facts and figures to support voting anything other than Labour?

smileless the calibre of posts by saak is very poor; is that the type of post you approve of?

This will be the first GE that I wont be voting for Labour and looking at some of the posts on this thread I shall be more than happy not be a member of the Labour supporters club.

Some of you simply do want to listen to another point of view regardless of whether or not facts and figures are used to support that view point.

We live in a democracy with the luxury and benefit of free speech and anyone is entitled to come on to this and any other thread to voice theirs. IMO free speech shouldn't be regarded as an open invitation to make personal and offensive comments to other posters.

Some of the responses that SAAK has received are at best juvenile and at worst offensive. If some of you are unable to debate without sinking to such depths, why do you bother to post at all?

I was asked questions yesterday on this thread which I answered; I asked questions which were ignored. I was referred to as "that poster" and "she" because some lack the most basic skills of civility. I gave an apology for responding to the wrong poster and that too was ignored.

Ask yourselves this; if someone not sure whether to vote Labour were to read through this thread, do you honestly think that the caliber of some of the posts would persuade them to do so?

Politics is always a heated debate with people quite rightly wishing to express their personal opinions. This is GN for goodness sake, one would expect ladies of a certain age to be able to express their views and support them without being insulted and bullied.

If some of you are true representatives of the kind of people that Labour attracts, I very much doubt I'll ever vote Labour again.

Not really

And this government has capped the number of doctors we can train ourselves. There are 'A' students applying for medical college who are being rejected because if this cap.

Could anything be more short-sighted and plain stuoid?

SAAK we haven't got all this trade with other countries yet either and have you ever worked in HR or Agencies where they are trying to recruit doctors and nurses for hospitals or General Pracice? They are like gold dust - just not enough of them of any Nationality let alone British!! It takes years to train anyone to do the jobs so realistically it will be at least ten years before Britain could supply enough medical staff.

Was it the last day of May yesterday? Could it be the end of her leadership? She made this GE about leadership yet she didn't show up to debate the issues. Beause she made it all about her as leader and not the party, she must take the flack.

Caroline Lucas was bang on when she said, "You don’t call a general election and say it’s the most important election in her lifetime and then not even be bothered to come and debate the issues at stake,” Davis was trying to spin it on Newsnight that all is well.

I thought Angus Robertson was very strong and Caroline Lucas was sharp and incisive - as usual. I enjoyed it.

And a vote for independence is just that. Nothing to do with hating the English.

Why would the Scots live here and have families if they didn't like us? You can get bigoted people anywhere but that doesn't make the whole lot bad. More voted to stay with us than leave. Surgeon and before her Salmon are almost fanatical to rid everyone of the English, why? Because of lost battles and kings centuries ago.
I have always loved my times in Scotland and found the people great. So there!

I'm Scottish and live in England. I find your posts stupid SAAK and bitter. I don't hate the English, DH is English and my children. What a very silly woman you are.

And by the way Scotland, you voted for staying in a British constitution before though didn't you? So the 68% is mute. It was part of a "national" vote not a Scottish one. So now you need to wait and maybe start again once Brexit is over.

I love other cultures and creeds. What I don't like is when I say, umm I don't understand what you're saying and being told I don't need to learn your ways or language, really? Yes you do.

I also don't like a scot living here and working here but secretly hating me for being English.

By the way my mother was a Glaswegian.

Totally sick of people living in England and hating us, yet making a living here. Im so happy for you to go home.

With respect i think that your Nicola sturgeon, is a bit of a loose cannon.

The royal we is that. I'm all for you standing on your own to be honest. pretty sick of it. My friends husband is scottish and lives here, hates us, well bugger off back then. Let's imagine that all Scots that hate us but live here go back to Scotland. I'd be pretty happy with that. Then you get your own vote.

LL9 and our finances are safe under the tories? That the same tories who have built up more debt in the past few years in power than ALL labour governments did EVER