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The result

(1001 Posts)
GracesGranMK2 Thu 08-Jun-17 22:04:52

The exit pole predicting no overall majority.

gillybob Mon 12-Jun-17 10:17:02

I think headteachers are already quite well paid trisher and heads of academies (it would seem) can almost dictate their earnings. I doubt whether there would ever be a vacancy for any teacher at the academy I refer to as the salaries are very handsome indeed.

I disagree with your comparison between large corporations/ schools. A school is paid for by the public via their taxes. It is a public service. We all pay into this whether we use the service or not. No comparison whatsoever to a large company. Why do we compare private/public sector when their is no comparison whatsoever.

trisher Mon 12-Jun-17 10:08:41

If Washerwoman really has no idea how she came to post as Earlgray I suggest she contacts GNHQ as her account could have been compromised in some way.
Academies are a problem, but I don't think they will go away. They presented head teachers with a way to remove themselves from LEA authority and access more money, not surprisingly many jumped at the chance.
As far as salaries go it is incredibly difficult to recruit head teachers for any schools, there are currently 109 head teacher vacancies advertised in the T.E.S, and it is now June so appointments for September are urgent. It is significant of the lack of status teaching as a career now enjoys, the number of people who leave the profession early and the amount of responsibility and commitment the role demands. If the salary should be compared to anything it should be to the head of a huge company with thousands of employees. A company with many problems and daily confrontation, where all the ills of society come to a head.

gillybob Mon 12-Jun-17 09:59:55

They have just put the names of the schools that no one wants to go to (the ones with plenty spare places)in a hat and pulled a name out.

gillybob Mon 12-Jun-17 09:58:07

What can we do about it though daphnedill ? Nothing it would seem. Of course I dare not criticise their twisted admissions policy (well not yet anyway). It is so unfair when there is not another school within miles. The LEA in its infinite wisdom has allocated "alternative" schools but not taken anything into consideration like where the child lives, which primary she attended, how on earth she will get there and back safely every day and least of all whether it is a good school.

daphnedill Mon 12-Jun-17 09:52:30

Exactly gillybob! I know a few schools like that.

daphnedill Mon 12-Jun-17 09:51:16

I could be wrong, because I haven't read the details, but my understanding is that the National Education Service was more about equalising the funding for "academic" and "vocational" courses.

Just about everybody agrees that the UK needs better quality education in high quality courses for those not inclined to academia, but with potential to to do well - in other words, the kind of courses the old polytechnics used to provide, alongside adult education and apprenticeships.

Going out now, but I'll look into it.

gillybob Mon 12-Jun-17 09:45:28

The academy to which I refer is one of the best (if not the best) schools in quite a wide area. This is the reason why my DGD and children like her who live very close, cannot get into the school as parents travel for miles to get their children into a feeder at the age of 4, knowing that this is the back door into the academy.

GracesGranMK2 Mon 12-Jun-17 09:32:13

Washerwomen I don't think Academy Schools were specifically mentioned in the LP manifesto but it did talk about a National Education Service so it may be that there is some thought of Council overview and, perhaps, re-adsorption over the years but that is just my guess. The costings for the Education Service and Early Years are here

daphnedill Mon 12-Jun-17 09:29:46

PS. I hope Labour really understands why new graduates aren't going into teaching in sufficient numbers and why so many trained teachers are leaving after just a couple of years. It's not just about money, but listening to the concerns which teachers have.

daphnedill Mon 12-Jun-17 09:27:07

I hope you're right. There are some adjustments which could be made to remove the tax advantages academies and free schools have. I would hope a Labour government would scrutinise plans for new free schools, especially faith schools, although there have been a couple of good initiatives, such as setting up schools for autistic children.

Local authorities need to be given back the authority to build new schools where needed and to control admissions. At the moment, it's a free for all.

I would also like to see the reintroduction of national pay and conditions, with some flexibility for areas with recruitment problems.

I would also like to see the abolition of unqualified teachers taking lessons as a cheap stopgap and the abolition of some of the routes into teaching, which don't have the academic and professional rigour of countries such as Finland.

durhamjen Mon 12-Jun-17 09:15:27

They obviously have decided that, daphne. They prefer to spend money on more teachers and reducing class sizes, rather than another rebranding exercise.

daphnedill Mon 12-Jun-17 09:05:13

X post, but mine was more long-winded (as usual hmm)

daphnedill Mon 12-Jun-17 09:00:11

Maizie I sort of understand the rationale for the original academies. They were indeed failing schools and a number of interventions had failed to turn them around.

At the time, the heads (and public) blamed an over-prescriptive national curriculum. They claimed that they could put in place local solutions, if only they didn't have to follow national guidelines.

There were trials and a handful of those schools did indeed improve, where innovative heads were allowed to do their own thing. Therefore, it was decided that the model would work for all failing schools. Loads of money was spent on rebranding them - paying for traditional uniforms, rebranding with a new name, new buildings and changing the senior leadership team.

People overlooked that some of these rebranded schools improved at the expense of other local schools, as the new schools became oversubscribed and set admissions criteria which attracted the "easiest" pupils. It was then argued that if all schools had the same freedom as academies that they would all improve. The flaw in this was that the later academies didn't have the same resources as the first one and there's a limit to the number of "easy" pupils. The early results were never repeated for a whole area, although a few local schools continued to cream off the best.

When the Conservatives came to power, Gove spotted that the legislation had been put in place to free all schools from local authority control, which suited his privatisation agenda very well. These new academies were a totally different breed. They were schools which had already been judged as outstanding by Ofsted and were known as converter academies.

Moving forward, the original academies are often still "failing" and are seen as sink schools. The converter academies are often still "outstanding". The rest are still as they have always been - somewhere in between.

Billions has been spent on reorganisation and regulatory bodies, such as Ofsted, but the situation has hardly improved. Meanwhile, problems have been created with schools in competition with each other and being able to set ther own admissions criteria, which has created situations where no school places are available or only in the "sink" schools.

Academy chains have been established with CEOs being paid obscene salaries and opportunities for full privatisation have been created with academies able to outsource to their own advisors or maintenance companies for a profit.

The Conservatives have stopped trying to force academisation, but there is still subtle bribery. Academies have tax advantages (such as not having to pay business rates), so there is a short term and tempting advantage for schools thinking about converting to an academy.

It's disappointing that the Labour Party doesn't appear to have a policy on academies and free schools. They could have decided that full scale reorganisation would be too disruptive.

Washerwoman Mon 12-Jun-17 08:40:07

Thanks Maizie and I would agree with that actually.

MaizieD Mon 12-Jun-17 08:34:42

Academy schools were introduced by Labour as a way of turning round failing schools. I really never understand the rationale for this; apart from the fact that it might have had a psychological effect by changing people's perceptions of the school. It certainly undermined any confidence in the ability of LEAs to support failing schools.

The tories turned this policy on its head and insisted that 'good' schools must academise.

I think the initial Labour policy was pretty pointless and the tory perversion of it was even more pointless.

Washerwoman Mon 12-Jun-17 07:53:52

Typos again!Meant strong reservations.

Washerwoman Mon 12-Jun-17 07:52:29

Genuine question just so I can better understand. What are Jeremy Corbyns proposals for Academy schools.Stop them in their tracks or scrap them altogether?Only wondering as weren't they introduced by the Labour government in 2000.Obviously JC has a very different vision for Britain and as he's against any kind of privatisation would he want to dismantle the whole system,even the successful ones .I'm guessing so.Not saying I agree with them and can see why they have been controversial.
Also could I point out to Trisher if she's out there my two posts from yesterday. I still have NO idea how I logged on and it brought me up under a different name.That's an old password from something else and I didn't even notice with my first post as from my phone and no glasses on.Always a daft idea.I am not someon change names without saying so nor a liar.Dubious daughter is alive and well and actually has very high reservations about academies.

LumpySpacedPrincess Mon 12-Jun-17 06:44:39

the tories wanted to turn every school into an academy, another u turn of theirs. Goodness knows why, they rarely work well though they do suit some areas.

suzied Mon 12-Jun-17 05:33:02

Academy chains often have "executive heads" or "directors of education" who are paid more than double that of the ordinary head. There is one chain of 9 primary schools near here where the exec head has been arrested for fraud. His salary was £300k+. The old local authority education department had a director of education responsible for 70 + schools who was paid about £100k . ( this post no longer exists) Another academy chain here has 12 schools and their "director of education " is paid well over 3x that salary. How is that a good use of taxpayers money?

daphnedill Sun 11-Jun-17 23:23:26

Yes, you're right. In effect, they are private schools.

gillybob Sun 11-Jun-17 23:23:20

Sorry for half hijacking this thread with my school rants. I'm off to sleep now you will be glad to hear....work tomorrow. Yuk .

Night night.

daphnedill Sun 11-Jun-17 23:22:30

All academies are limited companies. However, they also have charitable status, which means they can't make a profit.

gillybob Sun 11-Jun-17 23:21:14

Only a hop,skip and a jump from being a private school.

daphnedill Sun 11-Jun-17 23:21:11

I wonder what's being going on behind closed doors for Gove to have been given a job. I wouldn't mind betting he's been making May's life difficult, so she's decided to bring him inside.

gillybob Sun 11-Jun-17 23:20:29

The school is run as a limited company. Not sure how that works???

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