The result

Jen, is the problem not choice of food or a music lesson for all on low wages, it's children need iPads, iPhones etc.

Ab Were you saying that buying iPads, iPhones versus paying for music lessons is one of the difficult choices parents have to make?

In the context of a discussion about choices between eating or paying for music lessons it's an odd one to slip in.

And since when did children need such expensive bits of kit?

I don't know any schoolchild who has an iphone or ipad.
Must live in a less affluent area.

I am now seriously convinced you live on a different planet ab.

(it's usually 'effect' GG. That's the noun.'Affect' is the verb. I said 'usually' because sometimes 'effect' is used as a verb, but not often)

As you were, people.

If you haven 't a clue why I mentioned iPhones Daphne then you didn't read my post yet you replied with a post about widescreen tv's most odd

Most parents are selfish. Unfortunately, schools and authorities have to balance resources as fairly and efficiently as they can.

I haven't a clue what you're going on about ab. What do iphones have to do with anything?

"I couldn't care less about music lessons being included in the national curriculum. I do care about children not being able to get into a school reasonably close to their home. Selfish I know."

I don't think you are being selfish about wanting a school place reasonably close to home but it is sad the you "couldn't care less about music lessons" gillybob. If it was exaggeration for affect/effect (someone tell me kind people) then it is totally understandable.

Daphne, when I spoke of iPhones etc, I was speaking of the time children have to fit in music practise every night, NOT that children shouldn't have them, but I think you knew that.

GG. Better a violin than a wooden spoon

Teachers work all the time, I get so angry when people go about the holidays, they have no idea.

My daughter teaches part time but I never contact her on her days off at times when her two are at school because I know she'll be working; she even brought work on the holiday that we had together. As I've said before, she's buying her pupils text books with her own money because the school can't afford them.

gillybob I think you'd find that the majority of classroom teachers and classroom assistant would agree with you. They DO care! Otherwise, they wouldn't stick with it, but there's a limit to what they can do. It wouldn't just be one extra child, but all the others who want a place at the school.

I couldn't care less about music lessons being included in the national curriculum. I do care about children not being able to get into a school reasonably close to their home. Selfish I know.

How much is his salary gilly? To be fair it's a damn hard job, people deserve to receive an adequate wage.

I work 2 hours over what I am paid every single day to try to keep things stable. I am so proud of the staff at my school, and my daughters, they are doing so much for our children but it's not enough. It is so hard to get any funding to help children with sen and they are falling through the cracks. It is disgusting, and I mean that in it's truest form, I am filled with disgust that this is happening in our country, all to satisfy the tory vision.

Don't even get me started on what they have done to the disabled, they have blood on their hands and have caused death and discomfort to many.

Just learned of the eye watering salaries enjoyed by the HT and his team at the secondary school that doesn't want my DGD. This makes it even more blatantly obvious how much the school care about children. No wonder they can't take even one more than they have to.

And Jen, should you decide to lean on our sympathy by talking of widows pensions, they could play for you

I don't know why I am shocked because I have watched and listened to what they have done at my daughter's (teacher not student) college where the cuts have been deeper earlier - but I really, really am.

It is awful that it is sport too. I can see why they have done it but shades of the Ragged Schools only able to teach reading, writing and arithmetic loom.

GG Schools are on average losing 8% of their budgets. The school my children attended is facing the loss of 22 teachers. Staffing is the major expense, as I'm sure you know. I've heard of a number of teachers who are volunteering to lose a half day's work to help balance the budget, rather than making staff completely redundant. Of course, this will mean that pupils won't have so many hours teaching and some subjects will need to be cut. It could cause childcare problems for pupils of primary school age.

GracesGran, both my elder granddaughters play the violin. They started in primary school, and continued into secondary. Both free lessons on borrowed violins until their parents decided they needed their own violins.
Much easier to carry around than a keyboard.

Yes GG she is in year 7.

We had a letter home explaining the difficult position the school is in and asking for money, a monthly contribution. The half day lost was sport.

Daphne, I live in the real world, I paid for my granddaughter to have music lessons, I paid for my daughters flute and cello. The latter on a widows pension the former on pension. I went without things . I didn't have holidays, eat out, bought clothes from charity shops, did some unpleasant jobs to earn money.

I am surprised one of them hasn't learned to play the violin to accompany posts like this.

We have all done what we could for children and grandchildren Annie and nobody that I know expects "the state doesn't pay for everything" - mainly because "the state" doesn't have any money - it's ours. We do expect it to aid us to pay into insurance for the unexpected and to allow us to pay taxes to give everyone an equality of opportunity though.

ab I'm not talking about holidays or luxuries. I'm talking about food, heating, clothes...basic stuff.

Not everybody has a grandparent who will pay.

That sounds like a typical Conservative argument. You forgot the widescreen TV!

I seriously think you live on a different planet. Do some sums!

I do. Beginning to have doubts about you, though.

Are you pleased that Labour party membership has risen to 800,000? 150,000 more since the election?

Do we Jen?