So what do we want?

Unless the treasurers were prosecuted it is wrong to claim they stole

Why do some people insist on comparing "us" (the UK) with France, Germany, Sweden or any other country for that matter?

We are the UK.

Lookimg at countries which have better health care, education, perhaps?

E,g French excellent health care, Finland has one of the best education systems in the world....etc....

"Best practice" is an established management strategy. I agree with Anya. Look at the countries which do better than we do and see what we can learn.

But they are so different to us Anya. Their climate different, the food they eat different, their lifestyles different, family dynamics different, working patterns different etc.

The French are a law unto themselves. They preach the EU laws and yet break them regularly. They are regularly on strike, they hold other parts of Europe to ransom with their air strikes, tunnel strikes etc. so not a very fair comparison. Their economy is rubbish. A very poor example.

Wow this has got surpringly personal. My opinion is that the media have little integrity and balance, even BBC, and that Brexit showed up the politics of lying about your opponent. Labour's manifesto was costed, others weren't. That manifesto included so many of the things that so many people here say they want. All this stuff about cutting back waste has been around for 30yrs+. What worries me is the waste of training people and then making their professional lives so difficult that they leave; nowadays such people are being charged stupid amounts to train and then leave. We are running out of nurses, doctors, teachers, police, prison officers, firemen, social workers. Crazy.

Something to aspire too then....perhaps in the same way we managed to turn around our dire and boring food choices from 50 years ago. I remember when Vesta Chow Mein with crispy noodles was considered the height of sophistication ???

too to

PS We're can still look at other countries, and learn, even though they are different from us.

Much of it is not that different Gilly - if it were there would not be so many Europeans choosing to live in each other's country.

Oh dear Gilly you don't really think civilisation stops at Dover surely

No Jalima I didn't pick on them because they're emotive. It's a fact that more is spent on healthcare during the last couple of years of life than at any other time. Saving premature babies is also extremely expensive, especially as a higher percentage than average have continuing needs.

As a first world country, we can afford to look after our elderly and children who wouldn't survive in a harsher environment. I'm not advocating that we shouldn't spend the money, but we need to accept the costs.

PS. I've spent the last few weeks visiting my mother in a hospice and I can see for myself how much is being spent. I wouldn't have it any other way, but we need to ask ourselves some serious questions.

I think the main reason the British choose to live in France/ Spain etc. is because of the climate.

Where do you get these ideas from gillybob?

It has been said it is far more common to rent than buy houses in France

Mmm! Vesta Chow Mein! My mother worked for the company which produced them and bought dozens of packets from the factory shop. I was brought up on them - I'm surprised I survived.

Dover ???? Where's that?

I dunno GGm7 where on earth do you get yours from?

It is more common for people to rent homes in Europe than in UK - but prior to WW2 most people rented in UK. You do not have your facts right at all Gilly. It is warmer in Europe in the summer but it is colder during the winter where we live - and can be a lot wetter too. Life is different and for us in many ways better. Some things can be annoying - mainly beaurocratic you and the amount of paperwork needed for anything official but you soon get used to it all and the pace of life. People are well mannered and friendly - naturally that also has something to do with reacting to how we behave. Before making up your mind maybe you should try living somewhere on the continent for a few months and try it out - you may well be pleasantly surprised.

Before making up your mind maybe you should try living somewhere on the continent for a few months and try it out - you may well be pleasantly surprised
Just abandon your business gillybob and take a gap year

What do we want ...INDEPENDENCE ,when do we want it NOW ....for those who think we're Better together....think ...why would we be better togetherin a system where over 10 thats TEN times the number of MP's are ENglish and have NO interest in Scotland or its affairs...we need to be in control of our OWN country ..to have peole in charge who work for US ......simple REALLY.Now imagine you have a small business and you have to give everything you make to your next door neighbour and THEY decide that you get 30% of your takings back and the rest goes to fund THEIR projects ...would YOU be happy with that ? Well an awful lot of us aren't either ...so it may take a wee bit more time but it will happen ....SAOR ALBA .

Daphnedill hospices are run by charities ...or they are in Scotland