Deselection issue in Labour Party with respect to Luciana Berger

People post all sorts of things on Facebook and as I don't tweet I can't post them on Twitter. You searched desperately and found something on Twitter I was simply pointing out that it can't happen and as such is no news, In other words there is no threat to democracy except perhaps by subversive elements and those who choose to believe there are still Reds hiding under our beds.

Yesterday, T, I understood a post of yours to be saying you'd searched for info on the alleged 'attack' by Momentum wonks on Luciana Berger but couldn't find any. Today I provided you with some. What have your people likes and unlikes on FB got to do with it? (rhetorical question; I don't really care; that post is amusing though ?).

I could post a list on my Facebook page of all the people I don't like or all the people I do like. It doesn't mean a thing. This is a no news item. A 'he said' "she said" discussion about something that will never happen.

of course I'm attacking momentums activities against other labour MPs! What on earth did you think I was doing
Well spotted WhiteWave and trisher! No flies on you two

PS Is Durham part of the South Tyneside constituency?

ww & tr, when did I claim that what I was saying wasn't an attack on a Party, or rather, part of a Party (Momentum is only part of LP so far)? Why is such an 'attack' not part of a plea or search for better democracy?

As I see it, getting the truth out about anything that looks like untruth or, ahem, an 'attack' on some MPs, is part of insistence on democracy.

Of course I'm attacking Momentum activities against other Labour MPs! What on earth did you think I was doing? And I've never denied that. Insisting that it's democracy I'm concerned with and attacking what I see as an attack on democracy are consistent with each other, as I see it.

I realise you disagree with my view because your view is different. We are here to hear different viewpoints, aren't we?

Can you, or anyone, categorically deny the truth of what Mark Wallace is saying? That's what I'm interested in right now because earlier in this discussion there seemed to be denials that moderate Labour MPs were being targeted by immoderate Momentum members.

Galloway only just saved his deposit in Manchester Gorton, where the winning non-Corbynite Labour candidate won with 76.3% of the vote. Somehow, I don't think any Labour selection panel would opt for Galloway.

Galloway is the nearest to Corbyns politics one could wish for

Stella Creasy has been on hit lists before. I believe her seat is going to be abolished, if the boundary reforms go ahead. It's ironic, because she was so successful in getting cross-party support for the NI abortions issue.

I really don't think the good people of Cambridge would take too kindly to George Galloway.

Anyway, why George Galloway?

So they want rid of Stella Creasy and Ann Clwydd

They could replace Daniel Zeichner with George Galloway

But it's not really democracy in action if voters only vote for an MP/party, because the candidate is less bad than the alternative.

In a marginal, there's a possibility that a candidate with views to either end of the political spectrum would lose. However, in a safe seat, there's potential to move a party in a particular direction as decreed by the national party, which might not be what voters actually want.

It's top down democracy, not the bottom up democracy most people claim to want.

I don't know what to make of it. Momentum claims its Facebook page was hacked - well, they would, wouldn't they? Mark Wallace, who is Deputy Editor of Conservative Home, claims it's genuine - well, he would, wouldn't he?

Looking at the list, it would be bl**dy stupid to deselect some of them. The one I know most about is Daniel Zeichner, the MP for Cambridge. Cambridge is a Lab/LibDem marginal and Zeichner increased his majority, because he's pro-Remain and because he's proved to be a good constituency MP. If he were to be deselected in favour of a more left-wing pro-Brexit MP, Labour would almost certainly lose the seat back to the LibDems.

gilly ?

Shadow education minister? What a joke!

Never has any one person been less suitable for a role.

The process for deselection remains when an MP comes up for re-election. So you seem to have argued yourself into a corner if this is really about democratic processes and not an attempt to criticise the Labour Party and continue the myth of the demon Momentum. I can think of many MPs who were Labour who I and many others would like to have seen the back of. But the democratic process says the local party will decide who is the party candidate. Then the electorate decides who is the MP. It really is just democracy in action Baggs. Give up. You can't pretend it is just about democracy any longer.

So bags is this a attack on one political party or a look at the democratic process as you insisted in one of your posts?

With respect to the claim of no info out there, I just came across this. The tweet is the start of a thread about what Momentum itself has said:
twitter.com/wallaceme/status/882926053584510977

Mark Wallace claims there are six untruths in South Tyneside Momentum's "belated apology".

Yes! FPTP is the other major reason why democracy in the UK is broken. Nevertheless, it's still important whose names appear on the ballot box in the first place.

PPS. They knew they'd retain a huge majority nationally, but it threatens to tarnish the local Conservative brand, where they are already being threatened by Independents (who are actually Conservatives in disguise, but they had a falling out a few years ago).

dd yes as you say if a popular MP gets deselected, one would hope that that the party pays for its shortsightedness at the next election. But of course because of FPTP etc this is unlikely to happen. A definate democratic gap!!

ww There were many instances of Tory lists being imposed on constituencies in the last election when there were vacancies. Local parties weren't allowed to put their own candidates forward. Most of the candidates on the list were Brexiters (by coincidence ) and were Maybot programme extensions. The local parties then selected a candidate from these motley choce and the voters were presented with a 'fait accompli' in safe seats.

PS. My former sitting Conservative MP had stated he was willing to stand for a further parliament, but was told to resign. Many in the local party are now regretting that decision. They had hoped to put forward their own candidate and hadn't realise they would have somebody imposed on them.

But in a constituency such as Wavertree, very few people will ever vote for any candidate who isn't Labour. In 2017, Luciana Berger won 79.5% of votes on a 70.1% turnout, which is a huge endorsement. If people were really dissatisfied with her, they would probably not have bothered to vote.

Local party membership constitutes a very small percentage of the electorate. By parachuting in favoured candidates or deselecting those they don't like in safe seats, they can undermine local democracy by limiting choice.

I actually know more about how the Conservatives select candidates via a list system. The only constituency where I know about Labour selection is Manchester Gorton, where Corbyn's favoured candidate was rejected. Nevertheless, I guess both major parties jostle for position go get favoured candidates on to the list. Additionally, there are questions about who is actually responsible for selecting the candidates. There's loads of scope for manipulation.

In the case of Luciana Berger, unless she does something outrageous, there seems little reason to deselect her and I would hope those who voted her would kick up a fuss. She's managed to increase her vote quite significantly since 2010, when she was first elected.

Now looking at whether and if this democratic.

We have established that political parties choose those candidates they wish to represent them in an election. And we know they do this through (usually) the local committees.

They then "offer" these candidates to the electorate who accept or reject them. The chosen candidates are then expected to represent their entire constituency.