What should be done about Public Sector pay?

Again we have a poster using the 'royal we'. Do tell Maizie who are these 'we' ,

I am an 'I' not a 'we'. Why the need to be a 'we'?

I wonder MazieD Were you a leader at school or just a hanger on? My guess is a hanger on.

I'll ask you directly, then gillybob. Do you 'get' it?

I don't think that gillybob has quite 'got' what we're saying about expecting teachers to do over and above their job and having the gall to swear about teachers who aren't able to do it

Is okay MazieD you can speak to me direct you know. You really don't have to talk through your fellow gang members.

I didn't say £100 for 2 hours I said £100 for 2 hours overtime. Overtime being the operative word. I had to pay a plumber £100 for walking in my door recently that's just the call out, I am sorry you don't think responsibility for 30+ children out of hours is worth as much.

Mind you, I do think that teachers have made a rod for their own backs by embracing and encouraging this idiotic notion of 'proms' for 11 year olds, and being willing to do it. It allows parents and grandparents to feel that it is an entitlement rather than a voluntary 'extra' on the teachers' part; thus laying them open to being sworn about if they're unable to do it..

I'm sure the teacher who did save the day would be horrified that her colleagues were being sworn about because they were (probably unavoidably) unavailable.

I wonder how much unpaid overtime the engineers do in her company?

I don't think that gillybob has quite 'got' what we're saying about expecting teachers to do over and above their job and having the gall to swear about teachers who aren't able to do it.

£100 for 2 hours? Really you shock me suzied however do they manage on such pathetic wages?

Difficult to raise that sort of money in DGC's school. It's in a very deprived area.

As I said the teacher concerned would probably be horrified at this conversation and if you go back and read my post I DID not slag off those teachers who dropped out. Just to be clear.

Forgot to add another lovely thing that happened.... The teacher that volunteered brought her daughter along (she's 13) to meet my DGD who goes to the same school she will be going to in September. She agreed to look out for her. Made my DGD'/s night to meet "Miss's daughter"

Happy days.

I just love it when things turn out nice.

•gillybob• you were the one who criticised "bloody teachers" and complained about their marvellous pay, pensions,holidays, working conditions etc it's a wonder there is a crisis in recruitment. It's great one teacher volunteered for the party, but don't slag off the ones who didn't. I'm sure they like children, just didn't want an extra 2 hours of unpaid work at the end of a long week. I would think 2 hours overtime would be at least £100 if you want a whip round. But don't forget tax etc.

Spot on, Eloethan and Rigby.

And there I was supposed to be the sarcastic one.
You do a nice line in sarcasm yourself, gillybob.

Sometimes I despair. I really do. The prom was on (as 3 teachers volunteered to help run it) then it was off as 2 dropped out (for whatever reason unknown) then one teacher agreed to do it with parent help (which there was always going to be) I noticed the caretaker had kindly stepped in too. He's lovely (and likes children which is always a bonus).

Maybe we should have a collection in the playground this morning to pay the teacher her hourly rate? Now how much would I need for 2 hours plus a bit of traveling. (It's okay she only lives 10 minutes away) she would probably be horrified if she could read some of the nasty posts begrudging. Children a little prom as this particular teacher seems to be in teaching for all the right reasons.

My angry response was because of the usual nasty sarcasm I get from one particular person (whom I will not name) who has to turn something lovely like an 11 year old girls prom into a party political statement for the NUT or whatever.

If teachers don't like children (and ther seems to be a few about) they shouldn't really be teachers should they?

The little prom lasted for 2 hours. The teacher who agreed to stay was thanked kindly and the parents (and others including me) cleared up. The children had a lovely time. Many of them will probably never see each other again after Friday (my DGD is one of them) so glad it went ahead. Just in case anyone is interested in the nice side of it. (Probably not, too busy whining about how poor teachers have to work extra hours marking papers and going to children's parties...... Oh dear what a horrible life they must have... Never mind 6 weeks holidays beckon) chin up.

As ever Eloe you say it all <sighs>. But there you go, the private sector is perfect, the employees work so hard and are so well trained , the employers are decent, treat their staff so well, follow all the laws on health and safety, payment of minimum wages, pay all their taxes, provide excellent service/goods with excellent customer service on the very rare occasions when things go wrong. I don't know why we don't let them take over our prisons, our fitness to work assessments, security for major sporting events...... oh wait a minute.....

Those bloody teachers not volunteering in droves to do extra unpaid overtime, how lazy can you get. I hope those bloody teachers know what you really think of them. They might even be having a night off marking books maybe spending time with their own friends and family. How selfish, When they should be spending another 4 hours plus at the end of their day of teaching supervising a school disco of over excited children.

My goodness, what a lot of bitterness aimed at teachers and nurses. How amazing that the people who look after our children and care for us when we are ill (often working beyond the hours for which they are paid) are accused of expecting "more more more for less less less". I would suggest that the reverse is true. People employed in public services often have an increased workload because of cuts in staffing, at the same time as having their pay increases restricted to 1% over the last 7 years.

Some people object to nurses, teachers, social workers, prison officers, etc. etc. getting more money, on the grounds that they are public servants and, as such, are paid from the public purse.

OK then, don't pay them and watch our education, justice and health systems become even more debilitated and chaotic because the fact is it is becoming extremely difficult to recruit people to do these jobs and, perhaps more importantly, to retain them.

Actually it nearly wasn't going to happen as no bloody teachers would volunteer to do it

There's absolutely no reason why teacher should do it. They are employed to teach, not to supervise end of term parties out of school hours.

So please don't swear at teachers who don't choose to give up their spare time for a non-teaching, and voluntary, event.

fullfact.org/economy/are-most-working-age-people-poverty-also-work/

Not just public sector pay.
Why are 55% of people in poverty living in working households? Disgraceful.

With many schools being academies and responsible for their own finances, can't they take the same teachers back?
Councils have no jurisdiction over academies, do they?

Trisher, I think it's a bit different from that - it's quite complicated but involves something about the sum of your pension and what you're earning not being more than what you were earning before you retired. Of course, anyone who retires can work in an unrelated field afterwards

I read today that 11% of nurses are no longer contributing to their pensions because they can't afford it.
That's terrible.
How much do MPs get for their pensions?

But they can't go back to the same job, yes they can do pt work, supply work, work in B and Q or whatever, but they can't do the same level of regular teaching work they were doing before and if they do their pension is docked. I do know this from experience! And I'm sure they haven't changed the rules.

Actually teachers can return to work as long as that work isn't pensionable and supply work often isn't, nor usually is agency work.

Yes but not after taking their pension .

But they can if they are made redundant, suzie. Which seems to happen quite a lot these days.