What should be done about Public Sector pay?

Actually, I was answering djen who asked about private firms running public services and their pension schemes.

I have no idea why you think it's a nonsense comparing running a country with running a school - and why it is odd that a head teacher should be paid more than a prime minister.

I think you will find that most small manufacturing businesses rely on big business for their work so I really can't see how taxing a bigger business at 26% would do anything than stop investment and/or encourage them to move abroad. Talk about biting the hand that feeds. The man is a complete idiot. Does he want to see Nissan move to France (I am confident Renault would be happy to move as soon as possible) and other big manufacturers would be hot on their heels.

If you read my post again dj you will note I said "one of the biggest" (council taxes) not the biggest. Really.

Why is the PMs salary a bench mark of anything? For one thing, they are provided with free housing -DC made a pretty penny renting out his Notting Hill House. But even without that, it's a nonsense comparison.

But a lot of employees of G4S whose jobs were previously public sector are low paid - now they aren't counted as public sector, it helps bring up the average salary for public sector workers - along with out sourced cleaners, porters etc That's why it's so complex really understanding what's going on

How are companies like G4S running prisons counted - public or private? They are counted as private pensions djen, contributory and stock-market based - presumably they do have a pension scheme and people do join it!

As for pay there is no general rule. Some in both public and private sectors do well and others do not.
That is so true Cindersdad

Management in the NHS, senior executives in local government, some head teachers etc all seem to be doing very nicely, earning far more than the PM in many instances whilst those who are suffering and being penalised are those on the lower pay scales who are carrying out the most essential jobs.

You said it was 6% pension contribution - not true now. We are talking about now. Re the salary bill, did that include employers NI and pension contribution? Was it actual salaries or salary bands. If the latter, how wide were they?

Rigby46 The average salary was calculated by published annual salary bill divided by FT employees, not 100% but a rough indicator.

Rigby46
Well I am in receipt of a PS pension and that is how mine was calculated!

Telly obviously I can't check much of the figures you gave but you are completely wrong about the pension contributions so I don't hold out much hope for the rest of your information. I do wish posters wouldn't do this - It's easy enough to check. I expect someone will be along to say you are entitled to your opinion

For 28 years, I have worked my socks off.
I chose Nursing because I wanted to make a difference. I wanted to look after people and make them better.
I have been kicked, punched and sworn at. I have gone home to my partner who has mopped up my tears because he understands.
To all of you that think that the Public Pay Sector do not justify their wages, then please, swap sides with me.
Maybe a black eye will make you think different.

Devongirl, roughly 5% on the higher level. I did a quick calculation of info on the web and the average salary of all staff in that particular council is £32K, which I would say is pretty good. People don't leave very often. Pension would depend on final salary and of course the years of service. You can only get out as a percentage of what you pay in.

Which shows how ridiculous Hammond's statement about public versus private pay was, Rigby.
Anything my grandson doesn't understand he calls complicated. I can hear him saying it now.

Well exactly dj that's why it's so complicated.

How are companies like G4S running prisons counted - public or private?

I think it's really difficult, well impossible, to discuss 'public sector pay' in the round. People employed in the public sector cover an enormous range of professions, qualifications and experience right across to unskilled jobs which require no qualifications or experience and minimum, if any training. Some are paid very badly and others extremely well. Recruitment and/or retention for some public sector workers is a huge problem in some areas ( by areas I mean geographical and/or work specialism). There are also people who are not classed as public sector workers but who in fact have salaries paid completely from public funds. In terms of pensions, one advantage to the public purse of someone with a decent public sector pension is that they are not claiming a whole range of means toasted benefits that retired private sector workers with no pension provision may be entitled to. It's all very complicated and what is really needed is 'just' a fairer society.

Ooh yes, Local Education Authorities ..that's a good idea.

Primroses link. You can read it if you want.

If you don't have £300,000 profit, then you don't have to pay 26% corporation tax, as Labour want big businesses to do, so they do benefit you.
You really ought to read their business manifesto instead of slagging them off all the time.

There are two north east councils in the top ten highest council taxes; Hartlepool, and Redcar and Cleveland.
I thought you lived higher up than that, gillybob.

Yes, mcem. I may not like the SNP, but even they don't get everything wrong.

As they are in Scotland?

Wouldn't it be a good idea if all state schools were run by local authorities, accountable to the voters?

Big salaries in education started with the academisation programme where "executive" heads run chains of schools and pay themselves huge salaries. I think we've had this discussion before. This is how taxpayers money is being siphoned off via semi privatisation routes, yet still maintaining the fiction that it is public service. Many of these academy chains run their own " consultancy" services and charge huge sums to other schools for services which in the past would have been undertaken by local education authorities. It is all a huge scam. And don't start me on (non) free schools which has cost a fortune which could have been spent on many more children's education.

£300,000 profit ? Yeah right DJ ?

I don't do links btw.

By the way, that's from the link that you put on.

" Labour plans to increase the main rate of corporation tax, reaching 26 per cent by 2020-21, but to reintroduce the ‘small profits rate’ for small businesses. This would apply to companies with annual profits below £300k and would be set at 20%, rising to 21% in 2020-21.
Labour wouldn’t require small businesses (those with a turnover of less than £85k) to submit quarterly tax returns, which is part of the incoming Making Tax Digital plans.
They promise a “package of reforms to business rates”, including raising the tax in line with CPI (consumer price index) rather than RPI (retail price index), exempting new investment in plant and machinery from valuations, and providing access to “a proper appeals process.” "

Gillybob often complains about corporation tax.
Corporation tax is now 19%. It would go up to 21% if they had profit of less than £300,000, under Labour. However, if it was more than £300,000 it would go up to 26%.
I think that is quite an advantage.