What should be done about Public Sector pay?

"Justin Madders, the shadow health minister, has written to Sir Amyas Morse, the comptroller and auditor general who heads up Whitehall’s spending watchdog, asking him to intervene before a sale is finalised, possibly as soon as next month.

“On the government’s own estimates NHSP saves the taxpayer around £70m a year by organising last-minute or replacement staffing for NHS trusts in England, and ensuring hospitals don’t have to rely on expensive private agencies”, Madders writes.

He wants the NAO to “examine the business case that has been produced [by the DH] to ascertain a better understanding of what additionality the private sector can bring to what on the face of it is already a successful organisation.”

NHSP supplies staff cheaper than those obtained through private agencies which Simon Stevens, the chief executive of NHS England, has castigated for charging “rip-off” rates.

It is thought ministers hope to realise about £50m for a 75% stake in the firm, which supplies staff to more than 100 hospitals around the UK. Staffline, one of the employment agencies hospitals use to find stand-in staff, is thought to be among those bidding to buy NHSP."

NHSP saves about £70 million a year.
Selling it off will realise £50 million in a one off sale.
Is this Tory financial wizardry that everyone talks about?
It doesn't make sense to me.
A better question is who owns the companies that are bidding.
But the best question of all is
Why is Hunt allowed to sell it off?

I can't see anywhere in there that says doctors are taking money out of the NHS.
Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Perhaps a different question would be why do doctors use other agencies when they know that NHS Professionals does not charge fees? As they get the same rates through any agency, what makes doctors take that money out of the NHS?

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/27/labour-demands-inquiry-into-privatisation-of-nhs-owned-recruiter

Why is Hunt allowed to get away with privatising anything he wants to?
Anyone would think the Tory party had a big majority in the commons.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/CitizensAdvice/welfare%20publications/Universal%20Credit%20recommendations_DIGITAL.pdf

I think that's because Mencap were going to be totally broke durhamjen because they were in dispute with UNISON
www.unison.org.uk/news/press-release/2017/06/mencap-to-pay-care-workers-minimum-wage-for-sleep-ins/

I've just been sent a link to this.

www.gov.uk/government/news/government-announces-additional-support-for-social-care-providers

It looks like care providers who have been underpaying their workers will not be penalised for doing so.
That can't be right. It's immoral. Some carers are owed thousands of pounds.

Philip Hammond was a director a care homes company, as was his wife.
Couldn't have anything to do with that, could it?

I agree with your post Eloethan but would just like to say that the furore over the recruitment of medical staff from third world countries which I mentioned was in 2005.

I can't remember when this was but I also remember a 'brain drain' of our young doctors who had recently qualified here all going off to Commonwealth countries because, after training, there were no posts for them here.

Perhaps this has always happened, perhaps well qualified young people have always had a sense of adventure, seeking opportunities worldwide.

Whatever the reasons we need to train more nurses and we should not be charging them for the privilege.

Heading for privatisation, Eloethan, of course they knew what they were doing.

Given that few EU nurses are now wishing to work here, it seems that, with regard to Europe, it is not much of an issue any more.

What will happen instead is more nurses will be recruited from non-EU countries - many of them developing countries which will be much harder hit by the loss of the nurses they have gone to the expense of training. In 2015 an article in the Telegraph included this:

"Dr Carter said: “NHS trust after trust is recruiting heavily. Countries like Portugal, Spain and the Republic of Ireland have been exhausted. There is an ethical and a moral issue here. The UK, despite our financial issues, is one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

“ We cut our training programmes to save money but we are going off to India, Africa and the Philippines to recruit nurses they have trained and can ill afford to lose. I don’t feel good about going to a developing country and nicking their nurses.”

"Twenty-nine per cent of new nurses were recruited from abroad in the past 12 months compared with 11 per cent five years previously."

So, it appears that from 2010 onwards the number of nurses from overseas recruited into the NHS rocketed. I don't think it's any coincidence that this happened following the forming of the Conservative/Lib Dem coalition.

It is laudable to be concerned about tempting trained nurses from countries that have invested in their training and which desperately need them. However, this has been largely the result of Conservative policies. It started with bringing in the major re-organisation of the NHS that Cameron had categorically denied he would do. Now, recruitment and retention of British nurses is at an all-time low becasuse their pay has been cut and staffing has been reduced -and now they are expected to pay for their training. It doesn't take a genius to work out why fewer and fewer people in this country want to train to be nurses. I find it difficult to believe that the Conservatives were unaware of the consequences of their actions.

Grayling another one to go in the reshuffle.

labourlist.org/2017/07/grayling-needs-to-go-after-tribunal-fees-verdict-says-tssa-boss/

Brilliant news here for workers.

www.unison.org.uk/news/2017/07/massive-win-union-massive-win-workers/

durhamjen so you're OK with recruiting from areas where there are already nursing shortages?

www.waronwant.org/StandWithMigrantWorkers

t.co/VnuHo2UgeV

This is what not giving public sector workers pay rises means.
Along with lots of other problems this government has caused.

It was directed at anybody it applies to.

durhamjen If that remark about 'foreigners' is directed at me you've got it totally wrong.

Maizie as far as I'm aware, it is an EU rule, not initiated by the NMC, and applies to applicants from anywhere outside the EU, including English-speaking countries.

That was 2015.
Only 46 EU nurses applied in April.

I can't believe, Jalima, that you haven't noticed that some people do not want foreigners working in this country. That's what taking back control means.

Yes, Maizie any non-EU country I think, including New Zealand, Canada etc.
An NMC requirement I think.

Jalima This is the sort of practices I'm unhappy about

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-33691084

We do target EU countries that have their own staff issues. Some countries subsidise their nurse training so we're basically just stealing their investment. I just don't think that's fair.

Not an EU rule, then, Riverwalk?

I too, think it's ludicrous to make people from a country where English is the official language take an English language test.

Does it apply to Canadians and Americans too?

Why would people be delighted?

Is that because some people thought it was wrong to poach trained medical staff from 3rd world countries whose need was greater than ours instead of training our own?

As a practising RN my understanding is:

All non-EU applicants have to pass an English language test, including those from NZ, Australia & Canada, to be registered with the NMC (Nurses & Midwifery Council)

Nurses from the EU don't have to sit this test.

However, an employer can turn down an applicant from the EU if they deem their language skills to be lacking.

I have to say that it's ludicrous that an RN trained in NZ, Australia & Canada should have to sit an English language test.

I think that EU nurses now have to take the test the same as non-EU nurses have had to take.

It's an NMC requirement I believe, not Home Office.