What should be done about Public Sector pay?

Anyway, it will not matter as they all want to go back where they came from, much to some people's delight.
Having a block on pay rises must be doing some good, as far as those people are concerned.
No names mentioned; that would make it personal.

Mine too Maizie although from the little paragraph I copied above it seems that EU nurses (no matter how poor their English) are exempt.

Rules like that seem quite daft to me gillybob

I'm puzzled that it's thought to be an EU rule. Unless the 'rule' is that nurses from outside the EU applying for jobs in an EU country have to prove that they are competent in the language of the country they are applying to (so, not specifically an English test).

I must confess that it sounds to me more like a rule thought up by our own Home Office. But my mind is open on it.

I am only saying what I understood from the discussion on Radio 4 last week (or possibly the week before not sure).

Apparently this "program" of protected learning costs thousands of £'s.

Towards the end of her life my mum spent a lot of time in and out of hospital and was looked after by a lot of EU nurses (as well as some from outside) who were VERY difficult to understand (or in some cases even have a conversation with) so I think maybe some of the nurses from the EU should take that test.

Fat finger, sorry!

You're right, gillybob that they have to take an English test which costs them about £550 - and Australian nursing degrees are apparently not good enough to enable themto work in the NHS - a Masrer's is required (at their own expense of course).

So an Australian nurse qualified with a degree to work in ICU in a modern Australian hospital has to work as a healthcare assistant in the NGS whilst he/she does a Master's.
I put a link on another thread somewhere.

I am not sure if that is an EU rule though.

NMC Registration

Nurses trained overseas, outside the EU, must register through the NMC's Overseas Nursing Programme (ONP).
They must meet the minimum NMC education requirement, English language requirement (academic IELTS of 6.5 or over on each section) and also undergo a 20 day programme of protected learning. Furthermore, where necessary, there may be a period of supervised practice.
Nurses who have qualifications from Australia, South Africa, New Zealand or Canada are generally considered very highly

Just copied this Maizie Don't do links. Whilst it says that nurses from Australia etc. are considered very highly they are not exempt form the rules and the programme is very expensive.

Its something to do with all nurses who did their training outside of the EU have to take an expensive English test (even if English is their first/only language).

I'm not sure Maizie I heard it being discussed on radio 4 last week. Going to try and find the article.

but some (EU) rule requires them to pay a large amount of money to sit an English exam

What EU rule is that, gillybob?

Apparently there are a lot of Australian nurses ready and willing to work in the UK but some (EU) rule requires them to pay a large amount of money to sit an English exam (their first and only language being English) when an EU nurse (who might not speak very good English at all ) does not.

Eloethan have you looked at the numbers posted by durhamjen?
I didn't say 'dire shortages' did I? It's certainly not what I meant. Just read what I actually said and explain why you disagree.

farnorth

primrose I've searched but I can't find any reference to dire shortages of nurses in low wage EU economies. There are, however, at least a dozen sites reporting the dangerous, and growing, shortage of nurses in the UK.

Does anyone think shelf stacking sounds glamorous??

I have done my stint of shelf stacking and I can assure you it is not as glamorous as it sounds, particularly if you get put on the pet food aisle

Or soap powder Jalima It half killed me it was so heavy and no lifting equipment either . I was doing it on an evening after doing a full days work and it was horrible. Oh the sneezing was awful too.

dj fair enough.
They'll be demoralised far faster, stacking shelves in Aldi for £8.53 an hour or £9.75 an hour if they live in London. Unless they're at other supermarkets who pay less.

It's a sensationalist article - that was the point I was making. I'll spell it out next time.

And if being uncomfortable with hiring nurses from low wage economies in the EU where they have fewer nurses per 1,000 people means I'm parochial in your eyes, that's fine too.

I read everything I post.
Industry leading wages does not mean minimum wage.
Aldi pays higher than the real living wage according to the Living Wage Foundation.

"Aldi is to give more than 3,000 employees a pay rise, overtaking Lidl to become the UK’s highest-paying supermarket.

From next month, Aldi staff will earn £8.53 per hour, raised to £9.75 per hour for those who live in London.

This is higher than the Government’s national living wage rate of £7.20 an hour. It even surpasses the Living Wage Foundation’s voluntary rate of £8.25 per hour."

dj They still pay minimum wage for stacking shelves though, even if you have a PhD. Their graduate scheme is different. You didn't read the article you posted!
NHS staff are quitting to stack shelves in supermarkets

I have done my stint of shelf stacking and I can assure you it is not as glamorous as it sounds, particularly if you get put on the pet food aisle.

You possibly chose the wrong example there, Primrose.
Aldi is number 2 in the Times top graduate employers.

I agree about the degree, FarNorth. My mother was an SEN, as opposed to an SRN.
All her training was on the ward.

You didn't look at the statistics I put on, did you?

ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/2/28/Practising_nurses_and_caring_professionals%2C_2014.png

Lots of EU countries have more nurses than we do.

I can see their point. Stacking shelves or working on checkouts is relatively stress-free compared to looking after ill people and that could give them a breathing space while they decide what to do next.

I still think that making degrees a requirement for all nurses was a mistake.

They'll be demoralised far faster, stacking shelves in Aldi for minimum wage. It's the same across most EU countries, it's not a UK problem, it's a global one really.