HS2 - too much for too few?

I think the best person I ever heard speaking about HS2 was Rory Sutherland (he's an advertising guy) He hypothesised that you could pay supermodels to walk up and down the train serving free champagne to all the passengers for about 10% of the budget and people would ask for the trains to be slowed down.

This is for the the BBC who relocated to Salford - it's all for those over-paid BBC staff.

Never mind the hoi polloi.

Oh Yes thank god . The U.K. Economy could collapse in that 10 minutes midgey

I went by train this week, there were several families travelling from Stoke on Trent to Skegness. That meant changes trains twice. Manchester and Leeds are important cities only connected by a little cross country train, but thank god we will be able to get to London ten minutes earlier at huge cost to the country and the countryside.

We had a booklet from HS2 the other day relating to the proposed changes to the route which is now to be switched from virtually the bottom of my garden (well, within half a mile of it!) to the M18 corridor - and the bottom of my best friend's garden! They will also be demolishing a brand new housing estate near Doncaster. The bill going through Parliament at the moment is not due to receive royal assent until 2022, and the whole thing will not be up and running until 2033, if then. I am among many who can't see the point of spending vast amounts of money on something which, by the time it comes on line - if it comes on line- will probably have been superseded by some more up to date technology. The budget has already increased from the original 30Bn to 55Bn and no one believes it will stop there. The money would be better spent on improving the existing rail infrastructure and rolling stock, and the proposed electrification of the Welsh and West Country lines which has now been scrapped for lack of funds.

To revert to the OP. I, too, think it's a terrible waste of money for not much (if any)gain.

I wonder if there'll be lots of expensive planning inquiries over the route, too.

its' not just Scotland that gets peed off with how all governments throw money at London paddyann . It is the entire North! (and Wales and lots of other places too)

Yes Jalima I agree and its just what I said earlier.

To answer the OP - yes.

And I don't know anyone who thinks it is a good idea and value for money.
Everyone I know thinks that that money should be spent improving our rail and road systems.

The electrification of the rail links in the West and Wales have also been abandoned so it is not just the North which is neglected.

Most MP's probably don't even know it exists never mind drive it MazieD.

Just as long as you don't need to drive on the single carriageway that runs on and off between Newcastle and Scotland MazieD but hey, that's right up North so not really part of the UK.... right?

But if Parliament were in Co Durham they wouldn't have to use that stretch to get back down South.

Anyway, the East Coast mainline has an excellent train service to Edinburgh, MPs could use that so that they can work while travelling. They shouldn't be spending unproductive time in a car

(I do sympathise about the dreadful state of the A1 north of Newcastle. I never use it to get to Scotland, prefer the A68, slow but pretty..)

Without being an expert in public sector finance, it seems to be that there isca logical flaw in this argument. You seem to be saying that Scottish tax payers pay for 10% of everything speht in England, plus 100% of everything spent in Scotland. This does not seem to square with the much more favourable deal that Scotland has under the Barnet formula.

I agree with you about not wanting to pay for HS2. I don'want to pay for it either.

I think maybe varian meant that its' not just Scotland that gets peed off with how all governments throw money at London paddyann . It is the entire North! (and Wales and lots of other places too).

varian I didn't say it WAS a Scotland V England matter I said that because it was an English matter Scottish MP's cant vote on it ,NOT even the 13 tories they are so happy about ..yet Scotland will have to contribute the normal 10% of the cost .Its like you saying your buying a new car that I cant use but I have to pay a proportion of it..its just ridiculous .We should have a say in how Westminster spends OUR money .We've built a new bridge over the Forth,there is no contribution from England Ireland or Wales to it so why should we have to pay towards HS2 or Crossrail ?

And the road that Gilly is talking about isn't just a short hop. Newcastle to Edinburgh is about a third of the A1, serving a great chunk of the NorthEast of England and the SouthEast of Scotland.

If all of our parliamentarians had a few years living in one of the long-forgotten areas, inhabited by demoralised leave voters, and the two groups were able to speak to each other, they might all learn useful lessons - and perhaps bring about changes for the better.

Just as long as you don't need to drive on the single carriageway that runs on and off between Newcastle and Scotland MazieD but hey, that's right up North so not really part of the UK.... right?

Yorkshire and Co, Durham both have direct rail and motorway (two motorways in fact, M1 & A1(M)) access to the south.

But I'd rather keep them away from Co Durham please...

I see your point varian, but can you imagine the howls of protest from inside the M25 if they were asked to go to somewhere without a major rail junction or a major motorway within easy reach? Also, don't people in the post-industruial parts of County Durham have enough to put up with without having to cope with MPs as well?

York is too nice. The temporary parliament should be sited somewhere in the middle of an area of post-industrial dereliction. Some part of Yorkshire or County Durham perhaps.

Yes, the apparent necessity for renovating the Houses of Parliament would be an excellent opportunity to move the whole caboodle to somewhere like York, even temporarily. It's supposed to be even more expensive to get the work done if they stay in London than if they move elsewhere, so why not?

I agree about moving big business out of London, gillybob. I would move Parliament out too, and relocate it to somewhere more central!

This is not a Scotland versus England issue. The problem in the UK is the difference between the treatment of London and everywhere else

Exactly varian

Personally I think its about time we forced some of the big businesses out of London and prevent others from starting/expanding. Otherwise we have a viscous circle. More jobs equals more people, more people, more transport etc.

As a Northerner I am fed up with everything being so London centric and its about time that successive governments realised that there is life outside the M25 !

This is not a Scotland versus England issue. The problem in the UK is the difference between the treatment of London and everywhere else.

HS2 is nothing more than an expesive vanity project. Why should it ever have been prioritised over so many much more worthwhile transport projects?

The A303, the main artery of Southwest England, only has sections of dual carraigeway. Traffic jams are horrendous -the area near Stonehenge is just one bad example. HS2 should be scrapped.

I think it's a difficult call for Crossrail 2. The tubes in London are dangerously overcrowded during rush hour and the national economy, rightly or wrongly, is dependant on London.