Our country post Brexit

The 'extra' parliaments must cost a lot of money - would it work if the members of these Assemblies/Parliaments were the same people who sat in Westminster? They could sit in Westminster 2/3 days a week and the local one the other couple. They could extend the term of Parliaments so they could get through the workload and get a bit extra pay for compensation - must be cheaper over all - or maybe not enough to be worth it?

York would be a wonderful place Jen - but I am a little biased It is a good train service to London though.

"The government might stumble on, like some executive zombie, but it will do permanent damage to the careers of those associated with it. Take its three chief actions this week: Stuffing the repeal bill with ministerial powers, rigging the committee system and awarding a one per cent pay rise to police and prison staff.

Put aside the relative decency of the policies in and of themselves. They all share a specific quality: They do not do the thing they are presented as doing.

The repeal bill is supposed to return power from a shadowy technocratic Brussels and return it to parliament. In actual fact, it eradicates the scrutiny of law which takes place at the EU parliament, then carries those powers over the heads of MPs and hands them to ministers. It is against parliamentary scrutiny, not for it.

The committee motion whitewashes the general election result, by building in a government advantage to the mechanisms of parliament. The prime minister who went to the country banging on about the 'will of the people' now uses obscure political initiatives to ensure she doesn't have to recognise it.

The decision to award a limited public sector pay rise is presented as a move away from austerity, but the raise is below inflation, which came in at 2.9% this week, and will anyway use money from existing budgets - meaning there will have to be cuts to other parts of the service. This isn't an end to austerity, it's a demand that services change the area being hit. Politically, it is a classic self-harming fudge: You confuse the public about your approach to an issue and do nothing to neutralise your opponent.

In each case, we're reliably informed that people don't read enough detail to notice this stuff. You do, because you're the kind of person who visits specialist political websites. But your average voter just glances at a headline. Maybe. But polls suggest people now prize integrity above other values, such as strength. They want politicians to be genuine and stick to their convictions. Even without all the details of how a standing committee works, or what a statutory instrument is, they hear the mood music: of a government doing the opposite of what it says it is doing, of shady moves in late night votes, of small-print politics."

Ian Dunt.

I see what you mean, GracesGran.
I was just thinking that that's why the UK parliament doesn't want an English parliament separate from Westminster.

How about having an English one in York? As in Duke of York being the second son of the monarch.

CardiffJaguar - you lost me completely I'm afraid. A clue would be helpful.

If you really believe that Brexit is going to have a davasting affect upon the UK and especially for future generations then do continue to speak loud and clear. No matter what the Leavers say they did not receive a majority from the whole electorate, 1/3 did not vote or were deprived of a vote. In any case we were deliberately duped by lies and distorted facts that influenced the votes. We need the full truthful facts ( no lies or false facts) on what Brexit means and a further referendum deciding once and for all, do we stay or leave. We should not be afraid of allowing the electorate a final decision on Brexit unless you don't trust the electorate deciding on the basis of the true facts.

GGMK2: That is the well known role of the opposition. Bringing a government down is not a general position unless the government loses a vote of confidence.

I can completely understand the English Parliament being a good thing - it does seem unfair not to have that. I think that all the devolved bodies what ever they are called should have the same rights and responsibilities and then common ones for Westminster.
The idea of having an English one in another part of Englad is a good one - it should be fairly north to get some form of different feeling. Mind you wherever it is sited there will be complaints - North Wales complains about all being Cardiff based - which is true but apart from flights the terrain in some areas of Wales makes transport more difficult.
You are probably rightGG about it making a difference.to the voting.

No Jen - I actually mean an English Parliament - like Scotland, Ireland and Wales have in their parliament and assemblies. It would need to be actual and physical (and probably not in London) to make all the countries more equal. The Parliament in London could remain as the UK parliament.

I feel this would give a focus for Englishness and stop the feeling that the English feel they are the UK. Just a thought.

There was a lot of discussion about EVEL, but there do not seem to have been a lot of EVEL votes in the Commons.
Is that because all laws are bound up with every other country in the UK?

This may seem a bit off topic but I have been thinking about the groups who benefit from Brexit as outlined by Richard Murphy. I do not get the last group at all. However, taking the first

The first were dogmatic nationalists. These have always been found in the Conservarive Party, but did of course provide the foundations for UKIP. Nationalism is not rational. It is not dogmatic. The gain they secure will not be economic. Whether in that case the national pride they think has been wounded by EU membership will be healed is open to doubt.

These are the ones I have come across on the other forum I occasionally mention. The problem I find is they are a group of elderly bullies (mainly the men) and it is difficult to understand why they have voted and feel how they feel because they consider attack the best form of defending their views.

However, I have come to one conclusion and wonder what you think. I believe the politicians made a mistake in not having an English Parliament. We devolved to all the countries except England and now we are loosing a sense of Englishness. Now I do not think my sense of Englishness is the same as the ones put forward on the forum I mention. These are often little boys who grew up playing fighting the Nazis and still winning the Empire but had we had an English Parliament perhaps this could have evolved or at least their been more than a historical feeling of Englishness and a gap.

As one who believes in "ExitfromBrexit" I found BBC question time weighted towards LEAVE. We cannot ignore the referendum despite the way it was run.

Without the UK the EU may go more Federal though many of the 27 really don't want that. The main reason for the LEAVE vote does seem to immigration which the UK government could have controlled if it had wanted to. I don't want a Federal Europe but we need to be part of Europe and have a say in how it's run. Nigel Farage did say to Jeane Claude Junker "Have you not learnt anything, if you had treated Cameron properly Brexit would not have happened..", he has a point but not the whole point.

It is not undemocratic or going against the "Will of the People" to want a second better informed referendum when the facts are fully understood.

I feel (perhaps being over-optimistic) that by the time Brexit happens there will be a much more generous offer to EU residents.
But that might be too late for many like varian's friend. The UK will be the poorer for that in many ways.

My German friend, who has lived here for more than 25 years with her British OH, working, paying taxes and contributing to society in many ways, has just told me that they have decided to emigrate as she no longer feels welcome here because of brexit.

The Government seem to be going round in circles over immigration post-Brexit, one minute reassuring EU workers and saying they are valued and the next making it very difficult for them to be treated as equals.

I have no idea what the Government intends and I'm sure it's very unsettling for them. It's definitely become a hostile environment for EU families living in U.K.

I'm sure the left leaning Brexit voters didn't intend this.

They certainly haven't realised, mostlyharmless.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-news-uk-eu-citizens-valued-stay-leave-europeans-britain-immigration-rules-brexodus-a7947181.html

The government is having to beg EU citizens to stay here, as they now realise what a problem it will be if all those saying they are going to leave do so.

Yes petra a very interesting Eurosceptic piece.
www.opendemocracy.net/uk/enrico-tortolano/eu-and-other-neoliberal-nightmares

However, I feel attempting to reform the EU from within, although difficult, would avoid the economic disaster of a hard Brexit. Austerity policies that the Tories seem so fond of, could easily be reversed by the UK government to give the economy a boost.

I really don't think the Brexit voters realise what they have unleashed. And the Brexit voters from neglected UK regions where manufacturing jobs have disappeared (and where large EU subsidies have been received) will be the people who suffer the most.

mostlyharmless
If you have the time read a piece in 'Open Democracy UK'
The piece is headed ' The eu and other liberal nightmares'
Dated 15 June 2016, brilliant article.

Probably the agreement with the car people was just till the end of the present contracts. Both have more recently made statements to the effect that depending on the Brexit results they may stop production. Of course Vauxhall has been sold since the original 'agreements'.

I understood the first two groupings: the nationalistic British Empire lovers (mainly older) and the left behind communities (in poorer regions and usually male) that were so against immigrants taking their jobs and their housing.
But I hadn't really appreciated the point of view among left leaning voters that the EU is seen by some as a bastion of neo-liberal values.

The Richard Murphy blog was very interesting. Thanks dj.
The three groups of Brexit voters makes real sense as I have been puzzled about why some people I know voted for Brexit - the intelligent left leaning 'anti neo-liberalism' ones in particular.
I know some of those have regretted their vote.

The leave leaflet said that, no matter what the result of the referendum, Nissan and Toyota (amongst others) would not be leaving this country.

I did read some of the comments Jen - just remains worrying. What I cannot get over is how the politicians just keep talking about the referendum result as if it was a huge majority - it wasn't. Do they all believe that if you keep saying something it becomes true?

I hope that's not true, Maw. I don't want a new iphone, in that case.
On the other hand, I don't have an old one, so I'm unlikely to get a new one.

Ford do still have their R and D facility in the UK - the main one for Europe and with testing facilities but they have another big testing ground in Belgium.