Our country post Brexit

Day 6 Thank you very much. You are the first leave voter to put a reasoned argument forward. This is not meant as sarcastic.

I admit I don't agree with you, that I think some of your assumptions about the way the EU works are not valid.
And that I would far rather deal with the EU than China or Trump's USA, for the health and safety of this country.
But you have made your point.

I haven't got time to join this interesting discussion - just going out.
Will read with interest this evening

A quote from Guy Verhofstadt
"A federal Europe is the only option"

I think people had completely inadequate information accompanied by empty rhetoric on the leave side and the leaders of the remain camp were complacent and made no real effort.

For which reason, once we know the agreed terms, I feel strongly that we should have a second referendum.

Also, actually the number of eligible voters was 46,500,001, with 17,410,742 people voting to leave - that figure is actually 37.4% of eligible voters so not "the majority of those in the UK entitled to vote" (*Day6*)

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/electorate-and-count-information

Day 6, you appear to want me to agree with you and I am not going to am I?

I will back any moves to make this the best leave - for the whole of the UK not small foibles - we can get and possibly something new in the way of membership. I have just as much right to do that as you have to stamp you feet because you do not feel you are getting your way.

Day6
You said it all in your post @ 09.42.
I would add that one day, not in our time, the eu project will fail, humane nature will dictate that. It's more probable that the euro will fail before that, it's not looking good.
Whichever goes first at least we won't be shackled to the horrendous mayhem that will ensue.
I believe that our vote to leave has lead a lot of people, not just in the uk, but all over Europe to look at exactly what is going on and what the end goal is.

Can you not accept that what we had with EU membership was not acceptable to the majority who voted to leave it?

Day 6, yes, I can accept that a small majority did not find the status quo acceptable but I am not at all sure what that has to do with this discussion; it was just a prejudice (opinion not based on fact) as you have agree the future is unknown after leaving.

Did you prefer the EU to the unknown?

Yes. I don't see that as an unreasonable choice, particularly when we were being lied to about the 'unknown' to such an extent that it made me even more suspicious about what was possible. Also, I didn't see it as binary. I felt the EU would change over time.

rotten...

"We all knew what we had."

Can you not accept that what we had with EU membership was not acceptable to the majority who voted to leave it?

Can you not accept that many weighed up what the EU was offering and decided to make our own way, however that turned out, was better than clinging on to something which they felt was damaging to the UK?

Did you prefer the EU to the unknown?

It's like saying you'll cling on to something rotton because rotton is better than nothing.

We have an opportunity to carve out a better future for the UK without the shackles of Brussels. I see that as an exciting and liberating future.

I saw the EU as a leaky boat we were expected to shore up. You didn't obviously.

Have the grace to admit my view is equally as valid as yours and was based on weighing up all the options. I preferred to leave, as did the majority of those in the UK entitled to vote.

"Well, doesn't the same apply to all of us who voted? We knew what we had and wanted to get away from it!"

No, it doesn't Day 6. We all knew what we had. No one - even those who were trying to persuade others to vote leave - knew what the outcome of that would be. If you can't see the difference maybe someone else can explain it better than I can.

Who wrote that please Day 6. I haven't spotted your reference but I may have missed it.

You really are very rude and little else illtellhim. It would be a waste of an ignore button to use if for you. Your comments are already so dismissible.

You obviously don't even read the threads as I was never an out and out remainer - I am probably more so now having heard the leavers arguments after the votes. I do not 'bang on' but join in the discussions on this forum. After all that is what it is meant for.

* I don't 'bang on' *. you'll never guess who said that, this group is a laugh a minute, where's that ignore button.

THIS, Graces Gran and other Remainers was the prime reason I wanted out of the EU.

'The style of government favoured by the European Union is very different from the free state that our ancestors fought to develop over many centuries. The single most important element of our constitution is that the government can be thrown out at any time by a simple majority in the House of Commons, and an immediate election called. This possibility remains, but now that fewer of our laws are made by Parliament, the value of being able to hold rulers to account has diminished. The EU makes occasional con­cessions to democracy here and there, but the primary thrust of the EU project from the outset has been to centralise power in the hands of rulers who have as free a hand as they can get away with. The EU will not change, which means that we need urgently to recover our powers of self-government, while we still have the chance.
The EU is bad for democracy, bad for personal freedom, and bad for pluralistic civil society. It is bad for democracy because it is a power grab that seeks to take control away from nations that have been, and remain, the best safeguard against the abuse of political power. Such abuse remains one of the great problems faced by any state. Historically nations tended to be run by elites intent on expropriating wealth and power. Many countries still are. Democratic account­ability under a liberal constitution has successfully contained the abuse of power in Britain and many other countries. A vital ingredient of constitutional democracy is national allegiance, a sentiment towards which the EU elite is unremittingly hostile. The only legitimate basis for the use of force by a government is that there has been consent, but Brussels decision makers are insulated from accountability. By contrast, our system from the earliest times allowed Parliament to exercise control over the income and expenditure of the executive and the policies of office holders.'

We are going to be free of that disturbing EU control. It is growing into an expensive political monster with more restrictions than benefits.

Graces Gran - we knew what we had and wanted to stay with it

Well, doesn't the same apply to all of us who voted?

We knew what we had and wanted to get away from it!

GracesGran - From what you say, your vote to leave was based on it being lottery whether the economy would be better or not.

And EXACTLY the same applied when you voted to remain in an economy based on the Euro, which has been performing disastrously. Yours too was a gamble, a lottery, unless of course your crystal ball is better than mine.

None of us can predict the future. Remainers seem to think they can.

Most come across now as sore losers who are determined to promote a dreadful future for us all.

Latest data shows unemployment is at a 42-year low, hiring in The City up 17% in the year to June and on the ATK Kearney global investment index the UK has risen from fifth to fourth. All this is good. July 2017.

Glad the money people have confidence in our economy.

"After seven years of solid growth it would be no surprise if the UK economy slowed slightly, as that is the way economies operate, but even with this, there are many reasons to be positive about the UK’s economic outlook and Brexit.

The outlook for the economy depends upon many factors. This includes our exit negotiations and future relationship with the EU. It also depends upon our trade with the rest of the world where we should be optimistic given the outlook for global growth and that we can trade freely and easily under the WTO. And it depends upon the domestic economy and the UK using its new-found freedom after Brexit to boost infrastructure, investment and innovation.

This is not the time to be pessimistic but realistic about near-term challenges and optimistic about longer-term opportunities."

Dr Gerard Lyons. Chief Economic Advisor, Investments.

No Day 6, you wanted the change, we knew what we had and wanted to stay with it so you need to tell us how it will be improved.

From what you say, your vote to leave was based on it being lottery whether the economy would be better or not. So we know you don't actually care about the economy but it would be good to know what will be better after all the upheaval and incredible cost.

Maizie - Now, will a Brexiter please tell us what we will gain from leaving the EU and destroying our economy?

Maizie can you please explain in detail how our economy will be destroyed?

Please note I am using future tense so your glimpse into a time to come will be of interest to us all.

Could you also give me the winning numbers for Saturday's lottery?

Gloom. Remainers WANT the UK to be poorer, for Brexit to be a disaster. It's becoming tiresome.

So far then we have

EU Immigrants to continue to come here to work

No border/frictionless border with Ireland

Stay in the CU.

remind me - why did we have a referendum?

The NI paper seems only worthy for the bin!

In view of the lack of optimism whatsoever on the part of the Brexiters I think we have every reason to be gloomy.

"It's interesting that Remainders are still banging on about what a "disaster" Brexit is"

I am not a 'Remainder' but I did vote remain. I don't 'bang on' but I will keep reporting the total mess this government is in when it comes to leaving and the negotiations. If you have anything to show this isn't true do tell us.

This thread was to give those who wanted to leave an opportunity to say what will be better; what is going to be good for all those who live in the UK? So far no one has offered anything.

It's not my 'personal opinion'. It's the opinion of just about every knowledgeable commentator.

Now, will a Brexiter please tell us what we will gain from leaving the EU and destroying our economy?

We've been asking and lacking an answer for a long time now...