A divided society-what can be done?

I agree that C of E schools don't seem to be overly religious, probably for the reason put forward by grumpa. They are different to other faith schools.

Am I right in thinking that C of E state schools typically date back to early in the last century or before then, and whether voluntary aided or voluntary controlled have been absorbed into the modern state system?

Doesn't this place them in a different category from faith schools set up specifically to cater for children of a specific faith, rather than for children of the parish? If so, any legislation to deal with the perceived problem of faith schools need to be carefully drafted.

But then our laws are always carefully drafted.....

I taught in a CofE primary school - it was the most popular in the area and when it came to Christmas etc any children of other faiths were always wanted to take part in whatever and their parents came to see everyone and loved it. The schools are not overtly religious at all but have a Christian ethos and celebrate some Christian festivals.
My GC went to a CofE secondary school which was grossly oversubscribed by families of all faith and the children were well representative not only of the local area but also further afield. There are a proportion of families which go to church, and a proportion from the local etc so it was always a good mix.
Religion is not rammed down their throats at all and the parents just liked the ethos of the schools and the results were good too. They felt the children were more tolerant and caring of each other.

Because, in my opinion Anniebach faiths schools are divisive, I have not issue at all with children being taught their parent's faith, my school was in a very Jewish area and the Jewish children went to Shul on Saturday mornings to learn about their religion. Having atheist schools would mean parents imposing their faith or lack of it, on their children. By having non faith based education and then individual tuition in the Quran or Quaker philosophy or Judaism or whatever, we then give children the means of learning about their parental faith without isolating them from each other. To be blunt, if segregating children on religious grounds at a very early age wasn't so succesful in keeping them 'within the faith' then the religions wouldn't do it! Many on here have testified how despite no longer practising the Catholic faith for example, they still have this deep ingrained guilt.

Another problem I feel, apart from religious schools, is the schools themselves. To put it bluntly and crudely ( and there are schools here doing it), they are still educating children to be factory fodder but there are no longer the factories. Blunt I know, but when you have generations who have always got a job in the shipyard/mines/car factory or whatever, it takes a sharp change in schools philosophy to get this message across.

Nobody wants to stop children from having faith. We just want people to be less divided and in childhood is the best place to start.

Faith schools divide society.

Why should children of a faith have their schools closed ? Why not Jewish, Anglican, RC. Muslim ,Quaker etc be left as they are and add atheists schools.

Newcastle has the biggest foodbank in the country. Was that the foodbank that was trashed earlier this year?

Well fed people create more stable communities, and perform better in school.

www.globalcitizen.org/en/issue/food-hunger/

Posted too soon as meant to add. These were some of the very people who raged at society, raged at homeowners, raged at the police, raged at anyone of a different colour or religion.

Oh dear I Could not support any kind of national service aimed only at the young and poor. I'm not sure how a new NS could or would work but it would have to apply to everyone. A few years ago I did some voluntary work with the community police on the outskirts of a large city. It was apparent that in the particular area in which we worked there were 4th generation people who had never worked. Could national service work for someone in their 40's, 50's or 60's ? I'm not sure.

I agree with most posts on here, although they are different! Faith schools are at the root of a lot of the problems I feel, children should be going to the same primary school as others on their street, not an Islamic/Jewish/Catholic or whatever establishment, if children grow up together and play together they will assimilate better. But, I also agree that there has never been a golden age when we were all gathered together, holding hands, and singing folk songs. Thankfully, the more blatant racism of 'no blacks, no irish' on rental properties is no longer permitted. But, to be concerned about a huge area of your home town being inhabited by only one group or nationality be they Roma or Muslim or Lithuanian does not make you a racist, David Blunkett spoke out about the concerns of his constituents on this very matter. It is easy for me to state that I am not racist, but my children went to a school where all of the other pupils spoke English well whether as their first or second language, we are a mixed community with no ghettos of poor, overworked migrants labour who could be accused of 'taking our jobs', I may well feel different if my DD walked down the street to crude comments from migrant young men, or if I felt cut off when everyone else in the local shop spoke something other than English. I think what I am trying to say, clumsily perhaps, is that it is easy to condemn, but perhaps harder to understand why people behave as they do.

Could we not have a better apprenticeship scheme, rather than National Service?

Let them eat potatoes. A long but interesting read about how the poor have been treated over the centuries.

theconversation.com/how-the-humble-potato-fuelled-the-rise-of-liberal-capitalism-80767

So would this "National service" be only for poor young people? Whichever way it was implemented there would be a huge outcry I think, from the middle class if they had to do it and from the poorest if they were the only people involved.

I wonder if the rise of the right could also be linked to the lack of extremism from the left? At one time the poor could target their anger at the rich and he aristocracy and were led by people who argued vehemently for the redistribution of wealth. Radical MPs like Aneurin Bevan and Manny Shinwell were hugely popular. There is nothing like them now so perhaps the right is the only option and people of other races are an easy target

Oh I do agree that many people have no desire to mix/socialise with people of different colours/creeds, religions etc. to be honest I can't see a problem with this as long as we all live and let live. There is a world of difference between not wanting to socialise with someone because they have different interests, values, religious back ground to you and being intolerant of a group of travelers hell bent on creating havoc to the local community.

It is now used as an explanation Gilly for many , we have to accept not everyone wants to live in harmony with all races and creeds. We excuse the far right yet even in this forum sympathise with anyone who complains that travellers have camped in their area

No need to duck devongirl it's good that we can have a sensible, interesting discussion. I agree that some kind of national service could be the answer.

I might have to duck here - I completely agree with your analysis of the problem, gillybob, and I wonder whether bringing back national service might be useful? - provided, of course, it was used to train boys in some sort of basic skills that would/would have to be recognised and of use afterwards; hopefully along the way they might feel some pride in themselves?

I am not blaming racism (as a whole) on poverty Anniebach I am saying those with an axe to grind against society, those living miserable hopeless lives are easy targets for far right groups. Who encourage them to believe that "foreigners" are taking what was rightfully theirs.

The education system often annoys me. It still concentrates so heavily on academic subjects encouraging all children to work hard at Maths English etc. and leaving those children who are in no way academic behind (far too soon) . Even apprenticeships (once the go to of those less academic but more practical) are aimed at those with the best exam passes. I don't think you can even get into Nissan as an apprentice on the line without GCE passes in the usual subjects. Back in the day many less academic people would have followed their fathers into the mines or the shipyards. Okay not ideal but at least giving a young man a sense of pride and the ability to earn and hold their head up in society, but those jobs for the masses are long gone. Should we feel surprised that the are young people just waiting for something to cling to? Something to belong to?
The do gooders often don't have a clue they think if they throw a bit of money in to setting up a pathetic scheme up it will solve these problems.

I just cannot agree with this - blame their actions on poverty, the media etc, there has always been far right groups and far left groups, racists, Blaming it on poverty etc is making excuses for them really . Did poverty cause racism in the Met?

Indeed gillybob and are encouraged to do so by some irresponsible media headlines. They believe myths about immigration etc. Partly because they want to and partly because their education levels are poor so they do not have the ability to read beyond the basics, to analyse or research. Good broad education is important. We have narrowed it down too much and sidelined subjects that interest a wider number of students so school /education does not appeal or offer a way out of poverty.

Improving the lives of the poorest people in society should be a given trisher and I also agree with penstemmon about closing the gap between the richest and poorest in society but I think the people attracted to these far right groups are going to be very hard to help. We are talking about people with a massive axe to grind against society. They probably don't have a job or at least a very poor one . Giving them an extra £ or 2 an hour won't change them. They are looking for something or someone to blame for their hopeless situation. They have it into their head that "foreigners" are coming into the UK and taking what is rightfully theirs. A well paid job, a comer shop, a job in a hospital, a house on a council estate, a girlfriend , an appointment at the GP, benefits, the list is endless. Instead of devoting their energies into trying to improve their "lot" they rage against those they seek to blame.

I agree with you, Penstemmon, about reducing the wealth gap.
The heads of the FTSE 100 companies are paid 160 times the average full time wage. I don't see how that can possibly be justified.

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/aug/03/ftse-100-chiefs-earn-160-times-the-average-wage-study-reveals

Newcastle's population was much higher in the past and had been dropping steadily until the early 2000s, it has now stabilised and is slowly increasing.

If poverty and deprivation are factors in the development of racism would the money best be spent on improving the lives of the poorest? Perhaps some investment in youth activities might help young people.