A divided society-what can be done?

Newcastle is a lovely city, but perhaps getting too big and crowded

Absolutely agree that it is a lovely city starbird but it certainly isn't overcrowded.

It is 6th on the list of the largest cities in the UK (in order of sq mtrs London, Greater Manchester, Leeds, Swansea, Sheffield, Newcastle) but 18th on the list of highest population (259,000 approx) with only a fraction of the population of London (approx 7.2 million).

From report:

In 2015 Newcastle was chosen as the first city in the UK for a march by German far-right anti-Islam group Pegida while last year pro-Nazi group, National Action, tried to drum up support on Tyneside unfurling “refugees not welcome” and “Hitler was right” banners.

On both occasions the far right groups were met by protest groups and anti-racism campaigners have come out in opposition to every EDL march ever held in the city.

I don't recognise this time when everyone mixed socially, there has always been divides , now we think the answer is we all mix socially , it has never been so.

Going back to the wages, one problem is that some companies only offer jobs for say, 30 hours then the employee tops up with pension credit. Even on full time on a minumum wage it can sometimes be legitimately claimed. (This is more of a benefits issue). Also some of them make deductions for vans, tools, uniform etc. Immigrants, especially if illegal, have less choice of job and work off the record for small sweatshop type companies (run by compatriots) that pay cash and don't declare them. Health and safety and minimum wage may go out of the window.

Newcastle is a lovely city, but perhaps getting too big and crowded, unfortunately it is easy to wind up a crowd to be hostile, and quite scary that it can happen overnight.

I think part of the problem is lack of personal socialising - we don't get to know people as we did in the old days when we did not have any screens as a substitute for meeting and talking with neighbours and friends,

Perhaps what we are experiencing is what some of the commonwealth populations felt felt when Europeans arrived en masse and took over.

Perhaps march wasn't correct, the crowd/demo trisher referred to in the O/P Gilly

I'm not sure which march you are referring to Anniebach ?

Was this march in Newcastle against Jewish, Anglican, RC. or organised by people of these faiths?

One way to stop division in society is to legislate to reduce the wealth gap. There will always be rich and poor but in the countries where societal structure minimises the extremes there is less unrest.

I agree about all schools being non religious. But I don't see this in itself to be too much of a problem in Newcastle.

There have been more anti-racist marches/gatherings in Newcastle than there have been racist with many many more people turning out. Newcastle does not have a huge immigrant population it is just an easy target for outsiders (the last one was a German far right group) to play upon the hopelessness and poverty that many suffer in the North East. Perhaps governments should be looking at the North, Southdivision of wealth and prosperity, as to why some young people are easy targets for far right groups, but that will never happen.

I am with you there varian All schools should be good secular schools. Of course huge numbers already are but I think dividing children by faith is not healthy.

I have come rather late to this thread but I have to agree with lovecheese

There is nothing more conducive to a divided society than religous apartthied in schools.

All children should be educated together. Inclusive education is the only way to foster understanding, tolerance and friendship.

Support the Accord Coalition which campaigns for inclusive ecutaion.

The connection between poverty and racism is definitely a factor, which makes it even more ironic that one of the premier sources of income in Newcastle now are the two universities who currently employ over 5000 people and bring money into many other businesses in the area. I wonder if part of this is also the class/race division as the students here (most are not long term immigrants) are from more affluent circumstances than the people who are marching?

The rise of right wing extremism is rarely truly to do with race and usually to do with poverty and the feeling of impotence. Those with power use race to gain the loyalty of the disaffected and disempowered poor 'indigenous' population. Those with power do not like and do not want to help the poor but they need them as foot soldiers to de-satablise society so that they can push their ideals forward and gain further finacial and political power. Happened like that in the 30s. Let's try and learn from the past!

day6 there an EU rule that says that workers from wherever they come must be paid the same as the indigenous labour.

If what you are saying is true. First we need the evidence and then we could send it to HMRC as it is against the law.

Day6
So we both read the same fake news
At the moment I'm far more interested in the new 'Warsaw' pact. It's hotting up in the east isn't it?
Poor old Juncker and Tusk have grief coming from both directions .

Welsh wife - He wants to stop companies actively recruiting from Easter European countries for low paid jobs where they will pay lower wages.

There are staunch socialists who want out of the EU for just that reason.

The EU in allowing cheap labour to flood Europe is making employers rich, off the back of poor people who will accept any wage just to survive.

It's iniquitous. It supports capitalism at its worst and its one of the reasons I wanted out of the EU. Cheap migrant Labour benefits no one but bosses who make mighty profits from it.

No wonder the likes of Richard Branson and billionaires like him want to remain in the EU. Look at all the wealthy people that want to remain. They have no notion of redistributing their wealth!

It also keeps wages low in all EU countries. Agencies here pay a pittance now to all those wanting work, no matter whether they are UK citizens or immigrants. They can get away with it too. It's grossly unfair but only those accepting the lowest rate will find work. It's exploitation.

How does cheap migrant labour benefit the working classes?

welshwife
So that was fake news then?

Macron is opening reception and processing centres in Libya to stem the flow of refugees taking the 'crazy' sea crossing - and also to filter out economic migrants.
He wants to stop companies actively recruiting from Easter European countries for low paid jobs where they will pay lower wages. He is in fact in favour of migration - my French friend and I were discussing it yesterday.

trisher
Have you forgotten, or choose to forget that Anjem Choudrey wanted to March through Wootton Bassett so that he could spout his hatred towards our country.
There's hardly a day goes past when we don't read of a Muslim wanting to harm us.
I'm not defending this hatred but I see very clearly how it's come about.

paddyann
The leaders of France and Sweden are thinking exactly the way Farage does.
Have you not seen the news ( yesterday) that the two countries want to block the free movement of labour from Eastern European states.
And to think that 'some' people believe it's only us.

I think Newcastle was deliberately targeted by the far right German group Pegida as they saw the opportunity to engage with those living either in or on the edge, of poverty.

trisher - as you say , very sad to see that kind of thing in Newcastle. From my memories there were very few people from other races there - few jobs. Compared to the SE.
The NE still seems to be economically poor, I think that's part of the buildup of racism.
Maizie antisemitism - that has always been there, but people were afraid to come out openly about it. As I've mentioned before, I converted to Judaism (husband is a Jew) and have occasionally experienced it personally. Which is a strange situation. But as aJewish lady once said to me, some Jews are racist too.
As are many black people - don't blame them.

Have we been told over the years how to think and behave? Has the "You MUST love everyone and accept your culture will be diluted by multiculturalism" agenda actually backfired?

I have a feeling that if it has backfired it has backfired worst in areas with very little diversity in the population. It's much easier to hate an unknown than hate the charming and friendly family who run the local newsagents and whose kids play with your kids.

Having said that, I am sure that in 'diverse' communities where the different sections don't mix the 'fear of the unknown' effect is undoubtedly as strong.

I must say that I am totally bemused by the apparent resurgence of anti-semitism. I was brought up in the era when all sorts of prejudices were bubbling away in the background, West Indian, African, Indian etc but never anti Jewish. Heavens, they were the victims of the Holocaust and greatly to be pitied. So where has that come from?

(anti-Zionism I can understand but it is not anti-semitism)

In the sixties there were signs in boarding houses no blacks, no dogs, we had the BNP for decades, always been racist chants at football matches . I do think UKIP made it acceptable to be racist, we now hear - I am not racist but .

I have suffered racism, but as much as I abhor it I can understand for some it isn't hating skin colour but fear of losing one's identity .