Not my fault I was born in the early 50's .

I have absolutely no problem in a millionaire receiving the state pension as long as the whole amount and more is taxed off him. It is hugely expensive to run a means tested system and much easier and less expensive to do it through the tax system; it also allows for changes of circumstance.

A citzen's pension should be paid to all - probably around £11 - 12,000. No other means tested allowances should be paid (except for housing until we find a way of sorting that out). All income over that level will then be taxed and taxation will provide this income (it does really now but we like to think we have 'paid' for it). Simple system. The age at which this should be paid is debatable (I could see it being around 70 but don't have an opinion) but I would also suggest that about half this amount be paid from 55 to allow a change of work or hours or both. This would cut out huge amounts of wasted administration.

I can't be bothered with the "we didn't have central heating, televisions etc." argument.

Whats the point of trying to compare then with now?

Like a fair few posts on here I feel pretty robbed I won't be getting my ' perks ' of getting old as I'm in the waiting to get to 66 age bracket as well, and that is still a fair few years to go as I'm still not 60. I think whatever age people are they are going to think the ones before had it easy. If anyone says anything against or ageism comments just smile and tell them that they will be that age ' one day ' !

Wishing your life away is a horrible way to live for anyone. I want to enjoy being 55,56,57 etc. not wish I was 67.5 which unless the goal posts are moved again will be around when I can retire from this shit.

Personally I think it is wrong that in theory a multi millionare can draw the state pension. I think it should be paid in the form of a tax credit using people's tax code - in other words, there should be a set lower level of income, say, £10,000 p/a, and any pensioner with no other income, should get that amount of money paid to them. For those with another source of income, there could be a sliding scale such that they receive some money to top up their income with an upper limit of say £50,000 above which they would get nothing.

That would mean that pension contributions would in effect be converted into tax.

We need to revert to the idea that the state is there for people who cannot help themselves, not a permanent bankroll.

I think part of the problem is that young people have much higher expectations than us. I am a true baby boomer born in 1946. When I was first married we both worked, we had no central heating - a fire which had to be lit with the coal I got in first. That also provided hot water. We had no hoover, washing machine, fridge, car etc. We scrimped and saved. We waited to have children until we could more or less afford it and I washed the nappies out by hand. My mum did buy me a spin dryer which was amazing. We have saved all our lives. We had camping holidays with the children which were amazing and generally enjoyed life.
Now we have a very good private and state pension, we have paid the mortgage off and are better off than we have ever been. What do we do with our money we have saved? We give it to our grown up children who enjoy a far higher standard of living than we ever did. I do not resent this but do resent the younger generation blaming us all the time.
Recycling is another issue but don't get me started on that one!

I am fed up being referred to as a Baby Boomer - this is an American term. In the UK there was a rise in the birth rate from 1946 to 1950 following the return of husbands from the War and people starting their families or adding an extra child. After 1950 the birth rate in the UK started to fall back again and didn't 'Boom' again until the 1960's. I won't get my State Pension or the associated benefits such as a free bus pass until I am 66 (if I live that long). I have worked most of my life since I was 16 and had a Saturday job before that, I have more than enough NIC's to qualify for my State Pension at 60 let alone 66. I hate the way this Government is portraying women of my generation, the 1950's babies - as greedy, uncaring and grasping. We have worked hard, often in jobs that didn't have a pension plan and even some that did restricted this to men only. Equality at work - nice idea but never did translate into practicality, even today the BBC has been found to be paying its female 'stars' far less than their male counterparts. The Government also lies about 1950's women only having 18 months added to their SPA - total tosh, it is 6 years for many of us born after 1953/54 tax year. No, I don't feel guilty for having worked hard, paid off my mortgage by not having Gap years/not going to University/not having expensive holidays etc etc. Having raised my own family whilst working I now look after my grandchildren full time so my daughter, who is a single Mum (not by choice) can work full time to support them. If you are one of the fortunate few who have a large private pension in retirement then you will, unless you have an accountant, be paying income tax on your State Pension so contributing still to the Government's coffers. If we want to save money then remove the extremely generous expenses allowances, meal subsidies and other perks from MP's. Freeze their pay, in fact, take it back down to £60,000 per annum for the next 10 years minimum. Stop the two homes shuffle allowance and move Parliament to the North where a new home could be found for a fraction of the cost of repairing Westminster, I am sure there is a Russian or Saudi multi millionaire who would happily take the crumbling ruin off the Government's hands for a decent sum. Rant over!

We pensioners often had very tough childhoods due to being born during or after the war. We didn't have heating, or even indoor toilet for much of the time, no telly, holidays ?????

Sweets on ration, clothes too and they were of the old variety of hard to wash and dry, I think the bulk of us have done that 'poverty' stuff and worked our way through it.

Not much women's equality back then either so our career opportunities were crimped in ways this generation (thankfully) can't imagine.

You can't say who is better off between generations.

Bus services need the subsidised travellers to keep viable for other people, the discounts we get generally prop up facilities that other people enjoy, we get low pensions compared to other places and the heating allowance is needed here, people can donate theirs to charity if they feel they don't want it and many people do.

We seem to find adequate money, for people arriving here having paid nothing in and the young, by and large, seem to embrace the idea that we can 'save the world', idealistic as youth is. I regret the way that we have become a youth led culture with the wisdom of elders so easily dispensed with and the young encouraged to believe themselves robbed in some way.

Other cultures respect the elders and that is cheaper in the long run, wisdom is not lost, extended family are around to help with child care and huge care home fees might be avoided. The welfare state has encouraged the monetary / costings mentality to take precedence over all 'valuing' of people and we are the poorer for it. Working long hours and paying high taxes, so that people might for for money what we have no time left to do for love.

I've worked since 1970 ,never taken time off for illness,having children OR bereavement...always paid the "big stamp" and still do .We had private pensions from we were in our 20's ...those pensions that promised us a huge tax free sum and a decent amount to live on every year .Sadly after more than one government change our pension value was cut time and again and we decided to take the cash out as soon as we could.We've invested it in property we rent out.We should be OK when /if we fully retire but with all the changes in the buy to let rules and more coming its a bit uncertain.What we've learned is it doesn't matter how much provision you make for yourselves the government will always screw it all up for you .We THOUGHT we'd done all the right things ...there may well be a lot of folk approaching pension age in the same boat,and many will struggle despite their efforts

I was skint when I was younger, I think many people are during their young days but the great difference between 'us and them' is that our expectations were lower.
We didn't have anywhere near as many clothes, electrical items and much else besides - computers, printers, mobile phones and the like weren't common household items.
We were perhaps more prepared to do without - save up if we couldn't afford it and credit wasn't so widely available.

My h and I are quite comfortably off, mortgage paid up. So though we have our gd live with us, she has a grant, we manage quite well.
I spoke to a friend the other day, she said her children think her life is one long holiday because like us she is retired.
I thought that was a blooming cheek, she has always worked.
And so have we, what we are enjoying now is the fruits of our labour.

I worked all my life, from the age of 13 doing temporary jobs and then going to full time work. When I had my kids I still worked on a part time basis and all the while paid tax and National Insurance. I finally retired at 63 though could have retired at 60. I still pay tax on my employers pension, do what am I doing wrong? My kids tell me I'm lucky, so have heard the arguments! We did what we felt was right at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

People have fought very hard for pensions that they can live on and there are now attempts to act as if we are living it up and taking from the mouths of the young. It is just more divisiveness aimed at stopping people from looking at those who are really taking all the money.
We get higher state pensions than some countries (like Canada where my parents live and they could not manage if they only had a state pension) and lower pensions than in many other countries (particularly in Europe).
It is not about us getting too much, it is about others getting too little and we have all seen the extent to which inequality is growing.
I don't think there has ever been the ageism that there is now. I have always jumped on posts on social media describing young people as feral or other demeaning language but I don't see people now doing the same for us.

I'm 60 this week, no pension jackpot for me. I have another 6 years to work and I don't think I will manage it. However, I don't begrudge my older friends having a happy retirement. I just wish I was a few years older and could retire while I still have some life in me. I've worked since I was 15 so I do think that it's a little unfair to expect me to carry on as I will have worked for 51 years. My son didn't start work until he was 21 as, like most of his generation, he stayed in education. as for the house builds - the problem in our area is that landlords are snapping them up and they are all being rented out. I think the government should stop this practice as the younger generation will never get a chance to buy while this is happening.

The problem is that you are not making a point dbDB77, you are putting forward yet another divisive argument. Just look at your language - you are hardly being even-handed!

There are two extremes of argument but you are only 'condemning' one of them and you are only blaming one group which you clearly identify as 'generally left-wing'.

How about the right-wing neo-liberals (or, in recent times, some members of the Conservative party) who do not believe in anything being state run. They are just as extreme.

If you want to make a centrist point you really do need to point out both extremes or you are just adding to the division.

Meant inequality above- sorry!

It is pointless setting generation against generation! Politics create different circumstances for different generations ...and each generation has to deal with those consequences as they see fit!
What has struck me on this thread is the widely differing circumstances of some of us within the same generation! I was born late 1954, wont get state pension until I am 66 but am retired on a public sector pension. I get free travel in London (TFL) , not the national free travel. I get free prescriptions. I do not get the fuel allowance and wont until I am 66. Someone born in 1953 like my husband (also retired on a public sector pension) gets free London travel, free national travel, the fuel allowance, free prescriptions and has done since he was 60/61! I don't think either of us should get them, it should be means tested! I don't believe that we pay in just for ourselves, we pay in for our society to provide for those who need society's help. But if it is going to be given to all it should be done more fairly so that people (women are suffering in particular from the inequality) born in 1954 /55 are not waiting 4/5 years longer than people born in 1952/53!

MPs have the rest of your average, GracesGran.
Just 10 years work gets them an average of £18,500.
We should be queuing up, shouldn't we?

The point I was trying to make about public:private sectors is that it is being used as another "divide" - i.e. a way to set one group against another. I feel that the prevailing view in some (generally left-wing) quarters is that the public sector is non-profit making & good but the private sector is profit-based and therefore bad.
Whereas I think both are essential and they need each other - and I wish that these divisive messages would cease.

Growing 'equality'?

The reality is there is growing equality in this country, and it's not between the generations.

Every time someone starts a thread about not being divisive people agree we shouldn't be and then make divisive remarks such as:

"And another "divide" is public sector = good, private sector = bad."

There are almost always three ways of seeing things. There are people who do think:
Public sector = good, private sector = bad
but just as many believe:
Private sector = good, public sector = bad
The third view is:
We need both and both have good and bad points.

Some very blinkered views have been posted on this thread but the worst is the roll out of the usual "we worked all our lives" - so did/do the vast majority in every generation!

(I would really like to know who has nicked a large part of my 'average' )

I think they do 2 x £1 million then down to just £100,000 prizes now, no £500,000 or even £250,000.

I don't mind at all if you have the other £1 million next month gillybob.

Even £25 made me happy!

We keep trying to win a million too Jalima but would settle for £500k or even £250k.... £50k ? ... £10k, £5k, £3....

Welshwife my DH I work full time and don't have that much between us ! Seriously it's another world.