Jews and racism

Anniebach, The difference is that I didn't start a new line and a capital letter where illtellhim did.

My memory was that the meaning (and information) flowed from one line to the next. I treated it as a series of sentences, not as poetry cut into lines.

Illtellhim has now tellt me otherwise, and doubtless feels most superior.

So do you not think that Pakistanis, Muslims or people of West Indian origin don't feel unsafe either? I'm not dismissing the reason for their feelings just pointing out that many people in London feel equally unsafe. That it is possible to misrepresent the situation if you concentrate your research on one area. Arguably young men of any ethnic origin are the victims of far more violent crime than any other section of the population, but most of us would not regard this as a problem and would not consider them a group who are at risk. Research is always valuable, but accepting it without looking at the wider picture is unreasonable.

A brick with Jew marked in it and thrown through your window would make someone feel unsafe surely no matter if in or out if London.

trisher, I think the key issue is its their Jewishness that makes them feel unsafe.

what difference ?

It would be interesting to know how many Londoners feel that they would like to live somewhere else- not necessarily another country but simply somewhere they feel safer. I am not dismissing the 17% who feel unwelcome but wonder if one of the largest Jewish communities is in Manchester why is there a regional difference? I do think that living in the South and particularly London is something many people of all races and religions do from economic necessity.

Sorry Elegram, you didn't do the quote justice, we should always look for all of the information.

I was shocked to read that post dismissing those people, yes people, they too bleed, as only 17% . Shameful

Playing down the fears of one part of the community by citing the fears of another group reminds me of that much-used quote from Martin Niemöller.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me."

I thought the same Elegran,

An example of - for the many not the few

Just picking on one section of society is not giving the full story, have you noticed how many people want to come in.

We are a very small country, cites in other parts of the wold have 20+ million people in them.

Now, I've noticed that none of the people spoken to want to move to Wales.

only 17%? Nothing that really is it?

Iam64, I too have close friends within the Manchester Jewish community and echo your thoughts that they are increasingly concerned about the growing anti semitism. The last few bar mitzvahs that we've attended have had guards patrolling the grounds because of threats of attacks, something that wasn't needed even 5 years ago. There has also been a reported increase in the number of assaults against members going to the synagogue on a Saturday.

But it's only 17% so they're probably OK.

ANY number of people feeling unwelcome because of ethnic or religious reasons is bad news. Singling out one group who have lived here for hundreds of years to say that "only" 17% of them feel unwanted seems to me to exhibit exactly the kind of attitude that has led to them feeling like that.

I wasn't aiming to perpetuate a stereotype. I was just surprised at the factual information Trevor Phillips produced. As a former head of the Equal Opportunities Commission he's in a position to know this.
There was other information in the programme too about eg Romanians and also West Indians. People may remember the programme? It created a bit of a stir at the time.

Only 17% feel unwelcome ? No problem then, not many votes for Corbyn at risk , the caring hard left !

Thanks Humbertbear for challenging one of the stereotypes of the Jewish community. If I can generalise, the Jewish community largely takes care of its own vulnerable elderly via the Synagogue and community organisations. That's one reason they are less visible when poverty amongst the elderly in particular is discussed.

"Only 17%" of the Jewish people questioned feel unwelcome (durhamjen 20 August). I am not defending those who don't make immigrants welcome but from the beginning of time, newcomers have often been treated with a degree of suspicion before being an established part of their community. The UK has had established Jewish communities for hundreds of years. The community in Manchester grew in the 19th century because of pogroms in Eastern Europe. Jewish families lives alongside recently arrived and equally poor Irish families, who were escaping starvation. The two communities helped each other, as those in need so often do. If the ancestors of those Jewish families feel unwelcome, there is a problem that can't be dismissed. I have friends who aren't thinking of leaving but are very concerned about what they perceive as growing anti semitism.

I have tried to keep out of this discussion but please don't use the stereotype that all Jews are rich. Yes there are some who are but like any other ethnic group they reflect a cross section of society and many of them, especially the elderly, are in need.

Can we afford to lose the Jews if such a number of them want to leave? I remember being astounded by the Trevor Phillips programme in which he stated the incredible wealth of Jewish people who make up a very small percentage of the population. It was really astonishing. No wonder the Conservatives appear not to be antisemitic.

Only 17% actually feel unwelcome. A similar survey of EU migrants would have a much larger proportion feeling unwelcome over the last two years.

In the CAA report over half of those interviewed were from London, another three hundred from the South. Not many left for the rest of the country.

Tricia
Southend people are most welcoming
We certainly are

The problem is that people think of all Jews as being one homogenous group. They are not, even more than all of any category of people are all the same. There are Jews of all races and nationalities, of several religious types or not practicing their religion at all. Some of them abhor what is happening to the Palestinian people and some approve.

The ones who responded to the survey are likely to the the more articulate ones with the strongest views - but that is true of all surveys. By agreeing to take part, people have answered the first and unwritten question of every voluntary survey - "Will I answer this?".

It isn't 'denial' to say there is a problem with a definition of anti-semitism that includes criticism of Israel as anti-semitic. It is asking that the problem be discussed and not brushed under the carpet. There can be no solution to a problem if it isn't talked about and dismissing the people who support the Palestinian people as anti-semetic is vilifying a group who are speaking up for the rights of an oppressed minority. Arguably refusing to discuss or recognise the problem fuels the opinions of the far right who are the real enemy and who use such things as propaganda to recruit to their ranks.

It seems to vary from place to place. I've read that Jews in London feel much less threatened than some other areas. The various jewish friends I've had over the years have shown no sign of wanting to take over the world.

I believe the Jews who say they encounter anti semitism, others choose not to. But me thinks if the 83% had been the Tory party we wouldn't be reading denial posts