Sovereignty and 'take back control'

But leavers never seem to accept that those who voted remain do to, so I thought I would give you a taste of how it feels. I don't think Gorbachev had a vote did he? It seems a little whimsical to quote him or are you suggesting he knew better than each individual how they should see the issue because his words are not the ones I would necessarily turn to for guidance.

You might just open your mind a little and realise that we all want what is best but we have different views on what that is.

niggly as long as you are happy in your isolationist view.

That's just it GG, us leavers have every thought for the country and the generations to come. The very reason we voted to leave is because we feel that our country in the long term will fare much much better in the wider world than under the restrictions and arrogance of the EU. I think it was Gorbachev who wondered why the countries of Europe want to create a European version of the Soviet Union? Well we don't and God willing it will cease to be a worry for us very soon.

From BBC News:
"Seven Labour MPs defied Jeremy Corbyn's order to oppose the bill - Ronnie Campbell, Frank Field, Kate Hoey, Kelvin Hopkins, John Mann, Dennis Skinner and Graham Stringer. No Conservatives voted against it."

James there is quite a time to go an, in reality, anything could happen. I don't think anyone thought the bill wouldn't go through last night but that is hardly the end of it all so don't despair

There is a great deal of over-anticipation by those who think they have 'won' but have no thought for the country and the generations to come.

Wretched kindle! ' to wave the EU goodbye'

An excellent outcome. I can't wait to watch e the EU goodbye!

James as we are leaving the EU all the laws need to be brought speedily onto the statute book.There is no other way to do it in time.
Field and Skinner are hardly going to vote for something that affects British workers badly!
You and others are assuming that later on, laws will be tweaked to workers disadvantage, but even if the Conservatives wanted to, which there is no evidence they do
Parliament will debate all important laws.
I think that some people are just realising that Brexit is actually happening for real now, and are unhappy about it.
Not all will go smoothly, but the bill last night had to be passed in order to get on.

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* 
I am deeply saddened and shocked by the misinformation being portrayed by the rebellion Labour MP's, particularly in ignoring the way the electorate was duped in the referendum.
*
* As mentioned by other contribution On the subject of Brexit, There is no realistic mandate for Brexit
, the referendum was a farce of epic proportions. The electorate were lied to and constantly mislead during the referendum. There are still too many people out there who have a completely false knowledge of the EU, because they have had lies and falsehoods rammed into them for far too long, by the brexiteers and the right wing media. They and it seems these Labour rebels have no idea of the gross damage brexit would perpetuate on the UK economy and social fabric, it must be one of the most heinous and malicious policy ever conceived! The politicians who supported the Gov have in principle voted to start the process of dismantling over 40 years of improvement in workers conditions and vital environmental protections.
* A very sad day for the people of the UK, particularly when even the likes of Skinner and Fields conjoin to effectively reject held principles of protecting eu workers conditions and the admirable support the eu gives to supporting an ageing society.
* 


I had started replying and it wasn't visible. I get the sense, I could be wrong of course, that the first reply is how you actually feel and the second was very much an afterthought.

It's only the right outcome if you care more about leaving the EU than you do about democracy in the UK.

It's to be hoped that this bill is radically amended in committee stage and in the Lords.

Perhaps that is why I said IMHO ?

A few supported it - mainly those who had above average votes for leave and a few abstained. Certainly it is not over as the front bench of the Tory party recognised.

I see we have another "message from Mount Sinai" lemongrove. It is actually only your opinion that it is the right outcome at this stage. Basically the only fact is that it happened - right or wrong.

IMHO of course.?

Well, the bill was passed, no Conservatives voted against it and a good handful of Labour MP's supported it.
The right outcome at this stage.

WomaninHavana has gone to bed now.

Tory benches still only half full.

Same here, Gracesgran. There could be up to 20 of them, so some reports say.

I am shocked by the LP MPs who are going to vote for it.

By the way, I noticed today that the EU are negotiating free trade deals with Australia and New Zealand.
We can't yet, but they can! Clever rest of EU.

Interesting, Maizie. It looks like it will not get through the House of Lords, particularly as May lied about the Lords passing scrutiny on the bill, and they said they had lots of reservations about it.

This twitter thread, by a barrister, explains the constitutional implications of the Repeal Bill

I do hope people read it as it's very important. It's about democracy...

twitter.com/WomaninHavana/status/907266809761550336

A HANDY GUIDE TO BREXIT DEMOCRACY

DEMOCRATIC
•Interpreting a simple Yes/No referendum on Brexit as the most extreme Brexit possible.

NOT DEMOCRATIC
•Insisting Parliament scrutinises the government's Brexit policies.
•Expressing any reservations about those policies.
•Trying to point out those policies might be flawed.
•Demonstrating against those policies.
•Insisting those policies are properly examined by Parliament.
•Objecting to an unparalleled power grab by ministers that undermines the sovereignty of Parliament.

What, indeed?

If only the facts were known when we *joined the Single Market, signed The Treaty of Rome and the Lisbon Treaty.

Which specific 'facts' are you referring to POGS?

*(We didn't just 'join' it, we created it. The Single Market was Thatcher's brainchild)

These are the papers from the negotiations so far, put in table form so hopefully easy to read and understand.

jackofkent.com/brexit-negotiations-resource-page/