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Sovereignty and 'take back control'

(524 Posts)
MaizieD Fri 08-Sept-17 10:28:09

In view of developments in Parliament over the past few days, such as the 'Henry VII' clause in the Repeal Bill and moves to give the government a majority in House of Commons Select committees , I am wondering just what people who voted Leave understand by the concept of 'Sovereignty' and if they are at all worried by the Government's attempts to bypass Parliamentary scrutiny of legislation and amendments to legislation?

durhamjen Mon 02-Oct-17 22:47:45

www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/oct/02/protester-tells-jacob-rees-mogg-hes-despicable-video

Rees-Mogg says he's despicable.

durhamjen Mon 02-Oct-17 22:41:26

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/02/philip-hammond-jacob-rees-mogg-tories-back-future

By John Crace.

MaizieD Mon 02-Oct-17 19:31:46

Not admitting it. then, GG? Written in the 3rd person...

GracesGranMK2 Mon 02-Oct-17 17:16:34

I think a Brexiteer may have just told you Maizie.

durhamjen Mon 02-Oct-17 14:13:04

A long read here, but worth it.

skwalker1964.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/wolchover-cd-no-contact-info1.pdf

MaizieD Mon 02-Oct-17 12:23:13

I'm not in the business of second guessing what Brexiteers might say, Primrose. I was hoping that I might get some reaction from them.

Primrose65 Mon 02-Oct-17 12:00:40

I would assume that Brexiters would say that this is a fundamental reason why they want to leave now. The 'complexities' are indicative of the federalism inherent in our relationship with the EU.
A Brexiteer could say - if we can't leave, then they can tell us we have to 'xxxxxx'. Insert your own idea - join the Euro would be my top guess.
Would they be wrong?

MaizieD Mon 02-Oct-17 11:50:06

Hidden in the depths of this thread this might not be noticed, but a question for Brexiters, from twitter this morning:

Paul Astell @paul_astell

Surely ardent but ordinary Brexiters must be shocked at the staggering complexities that have come to light since the ref.

Are you?

durhamjen Mon 02-Oct-17 10:10:02

"A hard Brexit could be a lot more painful for the U.K. than for the European Union.

Britain’s automotive, technology, health-care and consumer goods sectors may lose 17 billion pounds ($22.8 billion) a year in export revenues when the U.K. leaves the single market and customs union, according to a report released Monday by Chicago-based law firm Baker & McKenzie LLP and consultancy Oxford Economics Ltd. The sectors account for 42 percent of the U.K.’s manufacturing GDP.

The report highlights that the British-EU trading relationship is sometimes heavily tilted in Europe’s favor. EU countries buy about half of the U.K.’s exports, while the U.K. accounts for just 9 percent of EU goods. That means if British goods become relatively more expensive, because of tariffs or other regulatory costs proposed as part of a hard Brexit, Europeans could switch to cheaper alternatives and deliver an intense blow to U.K. exporters.

“You can understand why there is now mounting pressure for the U.K. to negotiate new customs arrangements for post-Brexit trade with the EU,” Jenny Revis, a Baker & McKenzie lawyer, said in an emailed statement. “And for companies to work with their industry groups to help shape future trading relations with the EU.” "

Bloomberg.

durhamjen Sun 01-Oct-17 00:22:23

www.indy100.com/article/jk-rowling-just-ruined-this-awful-brexit-metaphor-daniel-hannan-eu-harry-potter-twitter-7975226

Hannan thinks Brexit is just like moving home.

MaizieD Fri 29-Sept-17 21:40:00

I do, dj. It really is time that people started waking up and smelling the coffee.

durhamjen Fri 29-Sept-17 21:34:35

Wow, thanks, Maizie. I am pleased you thought it important enough to do that.

MaizieD Fri 29-Sept-17 21:30:01

For the benefit of people who won't follow links I've copied & pasted the tweets from dj's link

Start

Chris Kendall
People saying #Bombardier is a warning about life after #Brexit: you are right. Let me explain. /1
What’s my qualification? In 1993-4 I was in the UK’s DTI covering the long-running GATT dispute between the EU & US over Airbus v Boeing. /2
The US eliminated the UK’s large passenger aircraft industry in the 50s. In the 70s a new EU consortium challenged US dominance: Airbus. /3
Selling airliners isn’t like selling widgets. Investments are so huge, timelines so long, normal market rules don’t apply. /4
It takes literally decades for a multi-billion investment in a new airliner to return a profit. No bank will lend on those terms. /5
So the aircraft industry would not exist without state support. Every aircraft maker relies on some form of subsidy. /6
As aircraft makers fight for dominance, state aids have become the key battleground. Slapping on a punitive tariff can ruin a competitor
In the EU, we hit upon a solution called Launch Aid. Govt invests huge sums in developing new models, is repaid from royalties on sales. /8
The level of subsidy in Launch Aid can’t be determined because royalties continue to be paid throughout a product’s life.
So far, all EU Launch Aid for Airbus has ultimately returned a profit to state investors. ie zero subsidy. trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2010/september/tradoc_146485.pdf … /10
US calls foul & says it’s unfair, but it also uses state aids eg indirect subsidies. US aero manufacturers get billions in defence work. /11
US aero makers cross-subsidise development of civil airliners & engines by using tech developed under defence contracts. /12
This is how the Boeing 747 was developed, for example. www.economist.com/node/14214813 /13
Only huge economies like EU & US can afford large civil aircraft industries. But smaller countries can compete: eg Canada, Brazil. /14
But they can’t compete on a level playing field if they’re punished for legal state aids. They have to be able to defend themselves. /15
And this is where being an EU member is so important. The EU has the weight to defend itself. We can retaliate. /16
The UK acting alone can’t take on the US. This is why it lost its post-war lead in civil aviation. academic.oup.com/ahr/article/113/1/151/41355/Jeffrey-A-Engel-Cold-War-at-30-000-Feet-The-Anglo … /17
International trade is dirty, that’s why we need rules. Free trade Brextremists like Minford don’t get it, or deliberately hide from it. /18
By advocating unilateral free trade, “liberal” Leavers are bringing chocolate spoons to a knife fight. UK industry will be decimated. /19
Acting collectively, fronted by the exceptional trade specialists in the European Commission’s DG Trade, the EU defends its corner. /20
It’s a big bad world out there. If your livelihood depends on exports, do you want May, Fox, and Johnson defending your interests? /21

End

durhamjen Fri 29-Sept-17 19:20:36

Sorry, but this has to be read in tweets. It's about Bombardier, and written by someone who knows what is happening, not by the man who runs voxpolitical, someone Annie knows all about.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/09/29/bombardier-and-the-reason-brexit-will-further-cripple-uk-industry/

GracesGranMK2 Thu 28-Sept-17 23:42:47

That sounds interesting whitewave.

I think May is very used to getting her own way.

durhamjen Thu 28-Sept-17 23:31:30

skwawkbox.org/2017/09/28/may-ostracised-by-european-leaders-in-tallinn/

There are times when even I feel sorry for May.

whitewave Wed 27-Sept-17 09:33:31

Tweet from James Chapman.

Macron has invited the U.K. To join in a massive reform programme of the EU.

Now that is my sort of mood musicsmile

whitewave Wed 27-Sept-17 09:21:39

Wonder what the DUP is making of it, as I suspect a lot of protestants stand to lose their jobs as a NI friend said that most jobs are taken by protestants in Bombardier

whitewave Wed 27-Sept-17 08:55:03

Maybot is apparently annoyed grin

Never has there been such an ineffectual PM

durhamjen Wed 27-Sept-17 08:48:03

www.theweek.co.uk/88637/macron-sets-out-radical-vision-for-europe

I wonder how many brexiteers would change their minds if this happens - and how they would spin it.

durhamjen Wed 27-Sept-17 08:44:48

www.theweek.co.uk/brexit/65461/brexit-tusk-declares-end-of-uk-s-have-cake-and-eat-it-plan

durhamjen Wed 27-Sept-17 08:41:48

Thousands of jobs at risk, many in Northern Ireland, because of that, whitewave.

whitewave Wed 27-Sept-17 08:23:32

I will be extremely interested in how Fox is going to square the 220% tarfiff banged onto Bombardier.

So much for our sunny uplands and free trade.

durhamjen Mon 25-Sept-17 22:04:26

jackofkent.com/2017/09/michel-barniers-significant-comments-today-on-a-possible-transition/

Welshwife Mon 25-Sept-17 18:28:54

The Govt are acting like a whinging child who does not understand that the parent will not change what they said because of continued whinging!
Must be very frustrating for Brussels!