Corbyn and the centre ground

I have just heard (on Sunday with Niall Paterson) that the average age of Conservative supporters is 72!

Couldn't agree more LG. Corbyn has shone a light on the issues that make a difference to so many people's lives. If there are some who think there are real and better ways to deal with these - which don't rely on neo-liberalism, trickle down and rising boats - or whatever nonsense the Tories are currently spouting, they should say so.

What the soft right of Labour need to look at is whether they actually are Tory light or whether they do uphold social democratic principles. Certainly, while they support the Tory economics they are not supporting socialism.

So, Lemon, you have decided to drop your argument that the centre in politics cannot move (lost before it hit the computer) and just discuss why I used one particular word. You really do like personal attack more than politics don't you.

Exactly GG - there are sound economic arguments for investing in the people and in infrastructure; folk to not want more of the same, but watered down, but neither do they want a red revolution. I think Corbyn embodies this - it is about values as much as anything - decent human values have been lacking in our politics since Thatcher.

Corbyn is not perfect; he has some dubious past actions, as do most politicians. But he does represent what many want - a move away from the moral bankruptcy that has characterised our politics for so long

Lemon never does, Maizie. She finds it much easier to pick on a phrase and worry it like a dog with a bone.

I don't think you actually looked at the link I posted, lemongrove. Or read my post properly.

MaizieD a poll on the future nationalisation of some utilities does not mean much.So, as you rightly say,whether this translates into votes is another matter.We have just had a GE and it didn't translate into votes.That poll alone should not give Corbyn leave to think that his policies are now centre ground.I don't think he really does believe that, but politics dictate that he says it.

GGM2 I have no idea what you are talking about, which is quite usual with your posts.?However, 'acid remarks'? which would they be then?
If it was the comment from me as to where you got the words 'the soft right of the Labour Party' etc then all I can say is that it sounded lifted from a left wing blog or newspaper, which was why I asked.

^ Corbyn seems to think that the general population want to see his views put into practise, therefore that his views are becoming mainstream and centre ground.^

As I have noted on another thread somewhere, polling is showing that a very significant number of people are agreeing with Corbyn, particularly in relation to re-nationalisation of some sectors. So he has, I think, every right to feel that his 'views' are becoming mainstream. Of course, whether or not this translates into votes is entirely another matter.

On the other hand, May, with absolutely no justification at all, can say, with a straight face, things like 'the country is behind her on Brexit', which is so completely untrue and unevidenced as to be laughable (if it weren't so tragic).

lordashcroftpolls.com/2017/09/conservative-brand-voters-compare-labour-tory-agendas/

When you think about it, it doesn't matter who the centre is; what matters is who people vote for.

Under 45s, Annie. Your children. My children. People who only know Thatcher and later.

I see you have chosen an appropriate name this time Lemon with your rather acid remarks.

The movement of votes and preference for parties moves the centre otherwise we could be suggesting that, say, the Whigs were still the centre.

What if the current Tory party disappears or becomes a small outlier on the political scene. Can you not imagine a complete shift in the 'centre' in those circumstances?

It is possible to have a discussion (and it would be nice if you chose to be pleasant for once) about whether or not it has moved but you are completely incorrect in saying it cannot.

History being repeated, Clegg promising so much and failing, Corbyn has to aim for the young vote, they have no experience of a far left leader

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/poll-conservatives-jeremy-corbyn-young-people

Yes, I do understand the context, Corbyn seems to think that the general population want to see his views put into practise, therefore that his views are becoming mainstream and centre ground.
I would disagree with that.
apologies, it was in fact durhamjen who talked about the MP's and the DWP.

lemon with regard to the shift in the centre ground, I think that you don't seem to understand its context.

You addressed me but I think you must be talking to someone else?

whitewave the MP's who are asking for a pause ( quite rightly) from the DWP with rolling out universal credit, are not about to stop being Conservative MP's.Both main parties have MP's within their ranks who question what is going on at times, and long may that continue.

'The soft right of the Labour Party' ? Are these your own words GGM2 or lifted from, say, The Morning Star.
The Centre ground cannot be moving, no matter who says so ?It's either the centre or it isn't.Under Corbyn and McDonnell it isn't.

I have to say that Corbyn is a much more impressive speaker than Theresa May. She always sounds as if she's addressing the school on Speech Day. And if I hear her telling us how many new jobs have been created once more......! Doesn't mention the fact that they are all paying poverty wages

Thanks for that link, dj

Interesting that the BTL comments are not only civilised but are mostly intelligent, too...

I'm getting the sense that Corbyn is harnessing some of the frustrations with the tory regime that led to some people voting Leave in protest against the tories.

The tories are on a serious anti democratic power grab (vide the Great Repeal Bill and 'packing' select committees); if Labour are on one too then I'd rather have the Labour version than the tory version...

The Tory conference is going to be interesting.
Labour conference had a festival; the Tories are going to have one.
Theirs is organised by the People's Assembly and is called Take Back Manchester. It lasts for five days.

Today will see a packed timetable of events in venues across Manchester with Maxine Peake, Brian Eno, Barbara Nice, Afzan Khan MP, Paul Mason, Lindsey German, Mark Serwotka and many more.

Sounds good. There will possibly be more People's Assembly people there than Tory faithful.

I feel quite proud Jen - reading that.

What follows, to my mind, is that JCLP is offering renationalisation as a solution to the damage done by applying the restrictions of business models to what were monopolies for the public good and are now monopolies (even were more companies are involved such as energy) for private wealth.

The question I would ask is - if not renationalisation then what?

theconversation.com/corbyn-in-brighton-this-is-a-seismic-shift-in-two-ways-84800

This man says it as well.
The fact that a dozen Tory MPs are telling May she's gone too far on the DWP shows that Corbyn is becoming mainstream. That dozen seats could have Corbyn in no. 10.

You have all said what I wanted to say but didnt

Excellent posts GG, thank you