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Let's not forget Brexit

(1001 Posts)
Cindersdad Tue 03-Oct-17 19:16:18

I still feel that Brexit is wrong though have no idea how stop it. We get mixed messages on the negotiations, DD says that are going fine but the EU side says otherwise.

There was a protest in Manchester where Lib. Dems., European Movement. Open Britain and other groups made their feelings clear.

Our democracy and standard of living is under threat from dogmatism on both the left and the right.

jura2 Sat 28-Oct-17 13:39:54

Dear Daily Mail,

Thank you for conducting your important investigation into anti-Brexit bias at University. I am contacting you with information, which I think may be useful to you.

My partner is undertaking a Law degree and, as part of that course, she has to do a module on EU Law. I am concerned that her course tutor has been trying to impress a strong anti-Brexit sentiment among the students.

For example, the tutor keeps saying that the EU is not undemocratic, but provides for various ways for the British public to elect their European parliamentarians and for the UK to control the European Council and Commission through our ministers and UK Commissioners. In fact, the tutor has shown that the UK government is just as undemocratic, in its reliance upon unelected civil service members, local government, members of the Judiciary and House of Lords. I am shocked to discover that, while Monsieur Juncker was indirectly elected, so was Mrs. May and all of her cabinet of Ministers, by the Tory party.

My partner is therefore finding the sessions quite shocking. Anyone who voted Leave in last year's referendum must surely find the lessons incredibly uncomfortable. Another thing, for example, explains how freedom of movement under the EU Treaty does not entail a limitless freedom to just move between countries and claim benefits, as so many of us have been led to believe. In fact, all countries are permitted to include various protections against such forms of non-economic migration. What is more confusing, is that the course has contained nothing to do with the North African refugee crisis. We were told that in fact this has little to do with EU Law and relates, more generally, to an international humanitarian crisis and to national commitments through the United Nations.

My partner was also shocked to her core when she discovered that the total EU budget, across all 28 EU member states, was just €155bn in 2016. The UK public budget, in the same period, by comparison, was just £772bn (or €873bn). The cost of administration is also very high in the UK. It turns out, the Houses of Westminster aren't that cheap to run after all and the 650 MPs are earning a huge fortune, with very large pensions and expenses budgets. In learning all about EU Law, she has also discovered that most laws are passed in the form of EU Directives, which permit the UK considerable sovereignty in its lawmaking. It turns out that the bendy bananas myth was exactly that. In fact, EU regulatory law has largely been crafted by the big corporate industries across the EU, seeking regulatory harmonisation and improved market cohesion. It turns out that, apparently, this actually helps EU businesses to be globally competitive and is what makes the products on our supermarket shelves so cheap.

My partner therefore feels she has been suffering from considerable bias, which is intended to make her feel in favour of the EU. What seems remarkably unfair in all of this, is that that course tutor is clearly steering all of these students and trying to brainwash them. I do not think it is fair that tutors should be allowed to rely on facts or upon academic research in order to present this material to students. It is clearly influencing our young and brainwashing them into thinking that the EU is actually a positive institution. We must do more to make sure that University professors and researchers are not relying on academic data and facts, but instead rely more on hyperbole, misplaced nostalgia, populism and nativism. Such alternative facts seem to be more appealing and seem to have a better ability to steer the masses. Education could, I fear, be eventual undoing of the coveted alternative fact universe. A world, I fear, which might see the end of the Daily Mail forever.

I sincerely hope you will continue your investigation into this matter. It is clear that something is certainly awry at universities at the moment. It simply cannot be right that they are teaching 100% factual content which is 100% anti-Brexit. That is truly shocking.

Good luck and please let me know if you want further information. I would be more than happy to be interviewed for a centre-page feature, if desired. Please just let me know.

With sincere best wishes,

Josh

Above a brilliant reply to the Daily Mail re the request of names of lecturers and courses that are 'anti-Brexit'

durhamjen Sat 28-Oct-17 09:37:00

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/brex-factor-boris-johnson-1-5252931

The worst Brexiteers of the week.
You might want to avoid reading the Farage part.

durhamjen Sat 28-Oct-17 09:26:08

Those are good enough, Cindersdad. Number one is the most important.

"But since August, there has been a shift in favour of those who believe the decision was wrong. The latest poll, for the Times, shows 53% think the decision to leave was wrong, versus 47% believing it was right (the don’t knows were removed to compare directly with the original referendum vote) - the highest lead for ‘wrong’ since the referendum.

This shift is important because it underlines how May’s election result was as much about Brexit as it was with the troubled Conservative campaign and its ill-advised ‘dementia tax’. If the public really were in favour of the Hard Brexit, exit from the single market, prospect of a no deal vision that the Prime Minister has created, she would have won a majority. She did not.

Crucially, as Kellner spells out, it is the working classes whose minds are changing the most – because it is they who feel first how Brexit is impacting their household budgets; it is they who are the hardest hit by inflation and the prospect of food shortages because of queues at Dover. Kellner’s analysis reveals that while middle class opinion has barely changed on whether Brexit was the right decision – 60% believing it was wrong – working class voters have changed from 63% believing it was right in August to 56% now. The Prime Minister cannot hide from public opinion for long – even if another election is not until 2022. With negotiations in deadlock, parliament increasingly rebellious and the public losing confidence, Brexit is running into the sand."

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/reality-bites-news-worsens-1-5245153

Quote from this article.
Have you read it?

Cindersdad Sat 28-Oct-17 07:53:43

I'm privileged to have the opportunity to meet a group of MP's and MEP's locally in the near future. I have been asked to give questions in advance and have chosen the following.

1..Will you press for parliament's vote on the terms to include NoBrexit (i.e. dtaying in the EU) as opposed to just Deal or NoDeal which is what the government has reluctantly agreed to.

2. The referendum has been shown to have been based on lies, especially by the leave campaign, I believe that since the referendum the "Will of the People" has changed so that if there were to be a second vote remain would probably win. Considering that the majority of MP's voted remain are you prepared to vote on principle for the sake of the country against your party whip if needs be. This may require a second referendum.

3. Will you press the government to publish its own Brexit risk/impact statements. These are unlikely to affect their negotiating position though they may give pro-EU elements in the UK more arguments in their favour.

Questions 1 & 3 are already the subject of petitions to parliament. You could argue that questions 1 &2 are parallel.

While I regard Brexit as a disaster I have reluctantly to recognize that no matter how flawed the circumstances of the referendum, a small majority chose Brexit. If "NoBrexit" is accepted a lot of people will be upset; for that reason alone a second referendum would be needed to placate the Brexiteers whom I feel would likely be in a minority. I know I have raised 3 questions but I'm sure that others in the audience will raise the same issues.

Most people I talked to voted REMAIN and of those who voted LEAVE few have changed their minds. However in the event of a second shot the young who were excluded and those who thought REMAIN would win anyway are now more aware.

The audience restricted in numbers But if GN members have other issues you think I should raise please let me know. In any case I will report back after the meeting.

durhamjen Fri 27-Oct-17 23:16:06

EU car sales in September.

"Ford sales dropped 13 percent, hit by the weak UK market.

Volkswagen Group saw its registrations slip 1.1 percent, weighed down by the VW brand’s 3.2 percent drop. Seat's volume increased 10 percent, Skoda sales were up 3.6 percent and Audi sales fell 3.8 percent. Porsche's volume declined 9.5 percent.

Sales of BMW Group vehicles fell 2.1 percent as core brand volume slipped 1.1 percent and demand for the Mini brand dropped 5.4 percent. Rival Mercedes-Benz's brand registrations fell 0.1 percent, while sales of Smart vehicles slumped 12 percent."

durhamjen Fri 27-Oct-17 23:02:57

"My son in law manages an Audi dealership, so obviously if it goes tits he's in trouble. Only 6 months ago he moved to a bigger house which meant a much much bigger mortgage. He's not someone who takes on big mortgages lightly.
So I'm assuming that so far everything looks as if it's going to be ok.smile"

Not UK manufacturing, but UK car sales.

petra Fri 27-Oct-17 22:51:57

And now some good news for those of us who fly with BA.
Chief exec Willie Walsh has stated that no matter what happens they will be flying
Phillip Hammond got that wrong grin

petra Fri 27-Oct-17 22:38:55

durhamjen
I don't remember making a statement about uk manufacturing: but I bow to your superior memory.

Tegan2 Fri 27-Oct-17 22:25:16

I don't understand. No one can categorically state that brexit isn't affecting the economy of this country or, if it is when things will get much better than it was before brexit. If anyone was told to invest their life savings under those circumstances who, in their right mind, would do so; let alone investing in the future of this country.

GracesGranMK2 Fri 27-Oct-17 21:59:24

Just looking at your post about the possibility of a united Ireland. We could loose Scotland as well. Not a very 'united' kingdom any more. I do hope the leavers think all this is worth breaking it up should that happen; Little Englander could ring very true at this rate.

GracesGranMK2 Fri 27-Oct-17 21:48:32

Channel 4 News this evening reporting
A Green Party MEP has threatened legal action against the government for not releasing for what she says are more than 50 publicly funded studies into the impact of Brexit on different economic sectors. Molly Scott Cato and the Good Law Project say publication of the studies would inform public debate and help people plan for the future after Brexit happens.

They went on to do a short interview with her. I do hope she goes ahead as we don't seem to be getting any further forward with releasing these documents.

Primrose65 Fri 27-Oct-17 21:45:46

I don't think I've said anything about Brexit making a difference or not to any business. I've run companies before and I know how difficult it is to predict the future.
I can't control the strategic direction at Ford, so anything I think about their earnings this quarter is academic, especially as they did not make a loss as a company.

durhamjen Fri 27-Oct-17 19:41:16

So pleased that you are not bothered about Ford making a loss.
I am sure you are two of those who said Brexit wouldn't make any difference to manufacturing. Do let me know if I'm right or wrong.

petra Fri 27-Oct-17 19:37:54

durhamjen
It's a very good time to show a loss, particularly for tax purposes wink

Primrose65 Fri 27-Oct-17 19:34:44

"British buyers are pulling back in Ford’s most profitable market in the region"

Ford's losses are because the UK is the most profitable area. They had good earnings overall but have bigger problems than Brexit tbh.

durhamjen Fri 27-Oct-17 19:22:08

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-26/brexit-batters-ford-europe-as-tumult-sidelines-u-k-car-buyers

Ford's only losses are in the EU/UK because of Brexit.

durhamjen Fri 27-Oct-17 17:32:16

Who would have thought this a year ago?

www.theweek.co.uk/northern-ireland/89293/unified-ireland-on-the-cards-if-brexit-goes-badly

durhamjen Fri 27-Oct-17 17:12:37

infacts.org/clegg-found-best-way-stop-brexit/

Good article about Nick Clegg's idea.

durhamjen Fri 27-Oct-17 15:31:07

ukandeu.ac.uk/event/brexit-and-trade/

UK in a Changing Europe is having a conference on Thursday. I bet it doesn't get reported in any of the MSM.

Tegan2 Fri 27-Oct-17 10:39:19

I still can't get the Daily Mail [Sun]front page, pre referendum proclaiming that the Queen was anti EU. It shocked me back then and continues to shock me to this day. Especially when any lies are apologised for ages afterwards in small writing buried in the middle of said newspapers, having done their job of brainwashing half of the population.

MaizieD Fri 27-Oct-17 08:55:27

If anything, the shameful British pro-EU press taking every opportunity to bash the Government

How anyone can make that claim with a straight face when the most read papers ( Sun, Express, Daily Mail) are vociferously pro Brexit is beyond laughable. It really calls into question the critical thinking ability of these making it and beautifully illustrated the power of propaganda.

suzied Fri 27-Oct-17 07:11:33

Brexiteers cannot accept that this government is way out of its depth and incompetent too boot. It's ironic that Davis an arch Brexitier and like a lot of his political compatriots hadn't appreciated the difficulty in unraveling a 40 year relationship or having promulgated lies throughout the referendum to achieve their aim had no real idea of how to deliver their "cake and eating it" and the "take back control" mantra post Brexit. Any stalling in the negotiations is blamed on the EU, the press, the judges, the universities, just about anyone except themselves. Why they just can’t say we will treat EU citizens here the same as before, we won’t have a hard border with Eire, we’ll pay our dues clearly beats me. No it’s all U turns, denials, fabricated demands and differing amounts of money banded about.
We have total incompetents representing the UK and they will go down in history as the biggest buffoons to represent the Country. They can’t negotiate their way out of a paper bag let alone negotiate with another international body that we pay money to, the WTO. Who knew? I wouldn’t think Brexiters wanted another anonymous international organisation to control our trading arrangements. What was that about sovereignty?

Day6 Fri 27-Oct-17 00:24:06

'Sorry, but even Brexiteers are fast coming to the realisation that they are sinners.'

Oh how condescending, again. I am fairly well-read and reasonably intelligent. I considered the options and voted Leave, as did many of my professional colleagues and not one of us has been given any reason at all to have a change of heart.

If anything, the shameful British pro-EU press taking every opportunity to bash the Government when the greedy EU is stalling progress by demanding £89 BILLION of tax payers money has made me all the more glad we are getting out.

Thank goodness our government refuses to be held to ransom.

We are not on the back foot as Remainers seem to rejoice in repeating. If anything we have a distinct advantage. The EU case in all this has become about money rather than ideals/the four freedoms.

The future looks grim without our contributions and it looks pretty plain to me that the EU is desperate to bank as much as they can before they have to go forward without the massive contribution from the UK. Member states will be expected to pay more

Money is driving the early negotiations and as long as we stand firm and pay only our dues and no more, which is fair, we are at the wheel, not the EU who are desperately braking, swerving and stopping and hoping to paint May and negotiators in the worst possible light.

It won't wash.

No deal is probably better than any deal the EU can broker and it's now becoming evident that Juncker and co could be the real losers by stalling and making astonishing demands (in terms of money!) before any trade talks begin. It's blackmail, plain and simple and they have been exposed.

It is time now for the UK government to put the infrastructure in place to begin talks with the WTO.

lemongrove Thu 26-Oct-17 22:01:22

Yes, durhamjen now and then I do, but why pick up The Morning Star? Especially when you know what it will be like.

lemongrove Thu 26-Oct-17 21:59:31

What’s with the Royal ‘we’ GGM2 ? ?

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