Let's not forget Brexit

So; what are we gaining from any of this?#runningtostandstillimo

"Our plan, therefore, has to be accurate, honest and pragmatic. And we start with a basic premise. After nine treaties and 40 years of political and economic integration, there can be no clean break. Unravelling in a single step is not going to happen, and certainly not without compromises. This is a point that cannot be made too strongly.

Behind the scenes, having been deliberately shunned by the major campaign groups and the media, that idea has already gained considerable traction. Thus we get the Telegraph today reporting that, "according to one analysis (i.e., Flexcit), developing a Britain-specific deal is likely to take five years, running way beyond the two-year period between a country triggering the Article 50 exit clause and it being released from the European treaties".

"As such", the paper says, "it is likely the UK would adopt a model similar to Norway’s as holding position, before gravitating to a more bespoke arrangement, according to one scenario under discussion" – the scenario posited almost exclusively by Flexcit for the past two years. "

From the Flexcit article; eminently sensible in my opinion.

Well obviously it wouldn't be my solution and it would never be as good as being in the EU, but if it must be done t’were best it were done slowly....

Thanks for the flexcit link I’ll read it in between doing some cooking

Yes mamie on your comment on FOM. I’m sure that can be got around.

This is the short version of Flexcit, written before the referendum.
www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=85981
You can see why is so angry at the way things are going....
I just don't understand the support for cliff-edge Brexit. Who wants to make their country and their children poorer?

I think that the free movement could definately be got around.

The government has already recognised that the U.K. and many of its industries can’t survive without immigrant input.

It would be perfectly sensible to say that those entering the UK must find employment within 3months or even before entry. I am sure that it would be acceptable to the EU.
I must look at what Norway does.

Richard North in Flexcit sees EFTA an a medium-term interim arrangement in order to avoid a cliff edge.
It is also possible of course to modify freedom of movement in relation to employment, as other EU countries have done but Britain chose not to do.

Richard North’s blog is interesting as a leaver. He is appalled at the government’s handling.

Of course WTO would be an unimaginable disaster, and those extolling its virtues need to be honest about what it would mean.

Only one other country in the world belongs to the WTO and no other trade agreement and that is Mauritania. You don’t need much intelligence to understand what that would mean for the U.K.

Norway/Swiss style treaty would entail free-movement of people, no ifs, no buts (as well as large sums paid to EU, have to abide by all EU regs for import/exports, and have NO say in any EU decisions) ... Free movement will be the clear decider (and of course, as you Mamie- I am a remainer).

My fault for an ambiguous “they”. ?

Oh! Yes I thought you were talking about Norway and not the UK

Sorry. And yes I agree
Thank you

Here ww www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/13/norway-solution-would-put-brexit-uk-in-single-market-but-not-under-ecj
For a longer explanation, if you go to Richard North's eu referendum blog, you will find a link at the top to his Flexcit plan. This has a lot of detail on the options, though the Canadian one had yet to be signed when it was written.
As a very knowledgeable leaver he is furious at the prospect of WTO.
Obviously I would much prefer to stay in the EU, but I think EFTA would be a reasonable option.

Can you explain that mamie please

I don't know why they don't go for EFTA. It gets them round the ECJ red line.

Thank you both.

I’ve never really looked at Norway in depth though, so I do remember they voted to not become a member, but presumably recognised it is in their interest to cooperate as closely as possible.

Off the top of my head. Norway is a member of the EU in all but name as far as I understand EEA, Schengen etc. But Canada is purely a trading negotiation

I think?

I know I should know but can someone give me an idiots guide to the difference between a Canadian style deal and a Norwegian style deal.

Guardian is now reporting that May like the wimp,she has turned out to be is disowning the letter.

The whip has backtracked -

So that was a little storm in a tea cup.

A brexiteer government whip is demanding that universities give him details on their teaching of brexit issues - why??

-presumably to enforce re-education of academics who may not toe his party line??

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/education/tory-whip-writes-sinister-letter-universities-demanding-brexit-lectures/

The Sadiq Khan interview is interesting Jen.

In the Times today Rachel Sylvester says; but there is of course a clash between the representative democracy of parliament and the direct democracy of a referendum.

Westminster’s hall of mirrors is about to shatter It's a long article but well worth a read. You need to have subscribed (free for a limited amount of articles) to read it all though.

We can but hope - die in despair

Tusk says there could be no Brexit.

Interesting from Michel Barnier.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier

He will be retiring in 2019.