Let's not forget Brexit

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-15/goldman-sachs-jpmorgan-say-they-re-assuming-a-hard-brexit

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-16/why-brexit-risks-creating-a-gangsters-paradise-as-no-deal-looms

Here's another bit of information for you, whitewave. I bet Brexiteers never considered this.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-15/brexit-takes-bureaucracy-to-the-atomic-level-for-u-k-industry

I seee threads like this as go to places for information, as so much is being kept from the voter.

Notice Clinton talked about the great lie that is Brexit.

The day that someone who supports brexit gives me one shred of evidence that something positive is coming out of it is the day that I might start thinking about not campaigning to reverse it. As it is the more I get told to 'shut up' the louder it makes me want to shout.

Fortunately, whitewave and Maizie, I know that people like you will read what I post from other sources, having been kept in the dark by our own government.
So I don't feel it's all in vain if POGS doesn't read them.

Why do you do it?

In the first case, POGS, frustration that you are unable to see a moral dimension to your question and in the second case you have put words into our mouths which no-one can recall uttering. Knowing your passion for accuracy and your excellent ability to cut and paste it seems that the least that you could do is prove, by quoting them, that someone did use those words.

www.ceps.eu/publications/brexit-and-challenge-citizenship-british-passports-eu-citizens-living-uk

Another really interesting article about why or how EU citizens living in the UK could get British passports - and should they want to?

Actually there are masses of articles on that ceps website, which you would do well to read, POGS, as they will answer your questions.
They look at both sides of all questions.

Now compare and contrast the EU document pogs and you have your answer

From the previous ceps document.
POGS, I have told you why the EU don't HAVE to do it, but the UK SHOULD.
You may not think that is a good enough reponse to what you ask, but it's all you are going to get.

When did I tell you to, "Bloody well back off and go and annoy somebody else"?
I can't recall saying it, but I'm sure you can give me date and time, as it's in quotes.
If I did say it, well done me, as you are being rather a pain.
As usual you expect us to respond to your questions but you will not respond to ours.
What's new?

BREXIT AND THE TREATMENT OF EU CITIZENS
BY THE UK HOME OFFICE
Official British policy, as explained on the UK’s legal website Free Movement: “The ‘hostile environment’ for migrants is a package of measures designed to make life so difficult for individuals without permission to remain that they will not seek to enter the UK to begin with or if already present will leave voluntarily. It is inextricably linked to the net migration target;
the hostile environment is intended to reduce inward migration and increase outward emigration.”

According to the Home Office, all EU citizens in the UK will have to apply for and be granted UK residence permits within two years of BREXIT taking place for them to avoid the hostile environment.
Administrative hurdles for EU citizens
Since the notification of BREXIT in March 2017, the Home Office has been discouraging EU citizens from applying for EU documents that would provide evidence of their right to live and work in the UK. First the Home Office told EU citizens that they do not need documents (although it states in its negotiating position that all EU citizens will have to obtain documents within two years of BREXIT taking place), and then officials stated that any documents issued will not be legally binding after BREXIT. The Home Office webpage states:
You don’t need a registration certificate to confirm your residence status unless you’re an extended family member of someone from the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland
...
If you already have a registration certificate it won’t be
valid after the UK leaves the EU... A new scheme will be available for EU citizens and their families to
apply to stay in the UK after it leaves the EU.
These are questionable legal statements given that the UK was obliged to transpose the EU
Directive on citizens’ rights (Directive 2004/38) into national law, which it did through the
Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2016. All residence documents issued to EU citizens in the UK are issued under this national legislation, and as long as that legislation is in place, the documents are valid. Perhaps the Home Office is suggesting that as soon as BREXIT takes place, it will repeal the national Regulations and who knows what will be put, if anything, in their place.
Clearly, the Home Office wishes to discourage EU citizens from applying for documents. "

The EU are most unlikely to NOT give UK citizens the same rights that they have now but there are bi-lateral reciprocal agreements with regards to citizens living in another country. Some of the things such as health benefits are theoretically paid for by the citizens home govt - this matters particularly if you are a pensioner. Most people of working age build up rights to things such as health benefits the same as citizens of the country they are living in.
The U.K. Govt have muddied the waters a bit by announcing how they will be in effect reducing the benefits etc for EU citizens in UK.

pogs dj has kindly blued both the document I was talking about and some other stuff. Have you not had chance to look at them?

Well I didn't expect an answer to my question as to why the UK/May by not unilaterally giving EU citizens rights before ensuring UK citizens are getting Reciprocal Rights in the EU is 'Using them as Pawns' or 'Not doing the right thing' and yet the fact the EU are doing the exact same thing by not unilaterally giving UK citizens rights before the EU citizens in the UK get Reciprocal Rights is not 'Using them as Pawns', 'Not doing the right thing'.

I fully expected the comments that followed of a personal nature and to be honest it has become par for the course.

" That you fail to recognise that the UK might have a moral duty towards EU citizens whose lives they have disrupted speaks volumes about your view of human relationships."
---
"Why do you want EU citizens living in the UK to have fewer rights than they have now?"
----
"Equally I'd be pleased to see POGS copy and paste those references to a 'benevolent' EU and a 'malevolent' UK. Especially as she is the Gnet copy and paste Queen..."
----

Why do you do it?

At least this time durhamjen you didn't tell me ' Bloody well back off and go and annoy somebody else' or Whitewave tell me " We've been happily chatting amongst ourselves why don't you go and chat with your right wingers.".

Things must be looking up .

And just to reiterate I am not a Brexiter !

www.ceps.eu/publications/brexit-and-treatment-eu-citizens-uk-home-office

Happy to have a chat about anything to do with Daleks.?
The phrases
Resistance is futile and resistance is useless , exterminate etc were first used in Dr Who, later in Space 1999 and in Star Trek by the Borg.
Most episodes are now lost (Dr Who) but our son had a toy Dalek which amusingly said the above phrases.
Not that any of this matters, and is unproveable in any case.

Happy to hear Morgan supporting Starmer.

Sensible rhetoric from Starmer outlinng what a no deal would mean.

So no deal simply is not an option.

Transition suggested by Starmer must include an extension to negotiate a trade deal.

So bridge from 2019 to agreed time to sort out trade.

So reality is now meeting fantasy - national interest not self interest must prevail.
ECJ - must have some role as it is a huge contradiction on Maybots part in her requirements

Blimey how impressive compared to Davis.

Peston this morning

Sorry, lemon 1,690,000 results say you're probably wrong...

www.google.co.uk/search?q=who+said+resistance+is+futile+first&oq=who+said+%27resistance+is+futiel&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l2.12125j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

There is a point to writing what we think on here, because many poster other than just a few, do read the posts durhamjen even if they don’t add anything themselves.
You are not just in a cosy little club on any thread.

And?

Are you trying to claim that you keep doggedly posting on this thread full of miseries so as to present an alternative and positive view of Brexit?

No-one is stopping you and I'm sure we would be delighted if any Leaver could tell us what the advantages of leaving the EU are.

(Not the sovereignty, superstate, uncontrolled borders & EU army nonsense, please. We all know that's not true)

No the Daleks didn't, lemon.
Prove it.
Show me where the Daleks said resistance is futile.

It is quite interesting, and something I frequently notice.

But looking at the post whether miserable or not none of them are personal until the disrupters come out if the woodwork and begin to attack people at a personal level

I suspect it has everything to do with a lack of sensible debate, and nothing to do with supporting the brextremists argument.

Time to get out my Rushdie book.

The title is Let's not forget Brexit.

Yes DJ.

To be honest I thought it was sarcasm grin !!!

It might do a few of you good to forget Brexit for a while - to go with the flow, to let what will be, be.

I enjoy online debate but you Remainers all sound so desperate as you clutch at straws and fan the fires of misery regarding life as it will be lived in 2021 and beyond. Who knows what lies ahead tomorrow, never mind three years down the line? Life is unpredictable.

I view with interest.

What a very pleasant poster you are durhamjen ahem!
The Daleks said it before anyone else, Borg or otherwise,
So no, actually, I don’t get my quotes wrong.