Let's not forget Brexit

Yes I think a second referendum would be a disaster.

Parliament must step up and take the right decision when the time comes. That might be sooner than we think if it becomes clear, (as in my opinion it already is) that leaving will be economically insane.

We are already all £600 pa poorer, and we haven’t left yet. Growth for next year for world GDP is forecast at over 3%, in the U.K. it has just been reduced to 1.6% and likely to fall even more.

I think we - and they - would have to work at showing it could be a good thing Mostly, that's for sure; but I think it could be done. We have certainly caused problems for everyone but if it could be seen that the EU had moved forward in ways that seem to fit with what other countries want because of this then perhaps we could regain a bit of ground.

I do agree with your last para - that's how I feel. It's a bit 'which is the lesser of two evils' and how do we turn either into a positive. One think I do very strongly believe is that it will not be those who voted to leave who make either scenario work.

Good question!

Well I don't think our relationship with the EU if we chose to stay in would be very friendly. Lots of resentment at the problems we have caused perhaps?

To be honest, while I would love to stay in the EU, the thought of an acrimonious and divisive second referendum that might be the way to achieve it, fills me with horror!

Day6; has anyone who is against brexit been forbidden to post? If so, I must have missed it. Whose fault is it that they can find very little positive things to say. And, isn't it important that those of us who do not favour leaving the EU are doing our best to hold the government accountable for the way they are dealing with brexit, instead of just letting them get away with whatever they like.

So, what if we do stay in the EU, how do you think things would play out in that scenario? It may be one we have to consider before we have finished with all this.

It is such a shame this thread is mainly for Remainers.

Why stir? This thread is for anyone who has something to say and chooses to post - like all other threads. If there is a majority of one view it is either because there is more to be said from that point of view or those holding that view are more prepared to post. What would you like? That those wanting to post wait until a different view is posted before they post again?

jalima

I think that saying ( more or less) that ‘every little thing they do is magic’ about the EU bureaucrats and slinging mud at the Government side is plainly ridiculous.
Be honest and say that the EU is doing all it can to cause delay and obfuscation while trying to squeeze as much moolah out of the UK as it can, and the Government is trying to get the best deal out of them as it can, while trying to limit the amount the EU is after.

Someone else said that things must be really going bad for Brexit for the whips to have allowed the harassment accusations to gain such traction.
It was DH - I knew he had a loud voice but didn't realise you had heard him too in your neck of the woods whitewave.

Irrelevant comment, carry on as you were.

It is such a shame this thread is mainly for Remainers.

Carry on highlighting every scrap you find in pro-EU papers, every biased bit of reporting and government bashing. So much sensationalism.

You are slavering over what could be, how awful it will be, what might happen. You are predicting a future when you haven't a clue what tomorrow will bring.

Leavers consider the same things too, but from a "What if we'd stayed in the EU" perspective, as we watch the unrest on the streets of Europe, and the protests of the ordinary man as the EU struggles to remain united. Czechit is on the cards if you care to believe everything you read.

I am never taken in by the hype. Perhaps you ought to save your energy and see the process unfold. It is being held up by unreasonable EU demands and Mrs May is wisely not caving in to part with huge sums of taxpayers money to shore up a Europe worried sick about the lack of income from the UK.

Or would people like her to part with £89 billion so we can continue to be held over a barrel by Brussels? Yes?

No deal is a better deal than any the EU can broker. We are in the driving seat and I hope we are putting together an infrastructure now to enable talks with the WTO.

There's a positive spin for you...

I assume the uk Govt pays them a fee the same as they do in france
And I assumed you understood that the uk government had a reciprocal arrangement with every country in the European Union.
I wouldn't hold my breath for the same arrangement if I was living in France.

Someone else said that things must be really going bad for Brexit for the whips to have allowed the harassment accusations to gain such traction.

One down and 26 to go! The health service there is free same as NHS. I assume the UK Govt pays them a fee the same as they do in France.

Good news for english residents in Spain. It was announced on Radio 4 that their health care will be paid for. And our EHIC card will be recognised.

I saw a remark this morning that the EU are already well aware of what these studies show but it did not say how they would know - unless just to do with readily available facts already known by both sides.

I do think all the facts as they are known should be shown to everyone - whatever they actually say hiding them makes it appear they have something to hide.

Considering we have sold most of our essential utilities, be it gas, electricity including Nuclear Power, airports, and more, to other EU countries or others - I'd be amazed if Brexit would not have a massive impact on both supply and prices too.

I am much more concerned about the British Impact Reports. The Humble Address this afternoon will be interesting. The Cons keep saying that they have a 'material impact' on the negotiations. If that is the case then surely at least Parliament should be privy to them.

We keep being told that this is being done because of a 'majority' but that was just 4 per cent not 20 or 30 per cent and, I imagine, more than 4 per cent would want to know what they say.

On the DP today Clare Perry Minister for State for Climate Change and Industry has not seen the impact assessment for energy because, she said, "there isn't one". That really worries me. She was told there is one on Gas and one on Fossil Fuels but she hadn't seen those.

She then complained about 'opposition' rather than cross-party working, which takes the biscuit really. Talk about feeling entitled!

I've read something recently that suggests that the EU have a great deal of information on-line as to the effects on them of us leaving the EU. But I'm in a bit of a rush now and can't search for it.

But I see no reason at all why they should specifically publish their information in the UK, or even give us a clue as to where it might be found (imagine the howls of rage if they did that!)

Somewhere, which I can't find at the moment, petra said in a post that there wouldn't be a problem with UK airlines flying post Brexit. Sadly she never gives us links to her information sources but I wonder if it had anything to do with the recent appearance of the chief exec. of the International Airlines Group before the HOC transport committee?

Richard North's take on it here:

www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86655

If it wasn't that, perhaps petra would be kind enough to give us a source?

Does anyone know of anything we can sign asking for these studies to be published?

I see Labour is trying to force a vote on the studies being released

Shouldn't the EU publish their research and all their studies on the effect of Brexit? If our govt has so many, the EU must have at least as much, if not more. Or have I missed that?

Agreed Welshwife, about the Brexit studies showing bad effect on the UK. However, does DD and the GVT really believe the EU and M. Barnier have not done their own research and are fully aware. And that refusing to publish them is so so obviously an indication of wanting to hide a very poor hand - the EU and M Barnier will read between the lines and come to their own conclusions, surely?

Personally I feel the refusal to publish is to stop the public, and more importantly, Brexiters, from turning.

I was wondering if that was the end motive!!!

Maybe after the Hinkley Point fiasco things will not progress well that way though. The farmers selling milk to China - mainly sold to the middle and upper classes out there - could maybe use the milk to make the dairy products we currently import from the EU as they could be priced too high and also the likely longer timeline from production to supermarket shelves may be too long.

What still gets me though is how the Tories are taking the fact that such a high percentage of the electorate voted for pro Brexit parties in the GE - because they had no other option - it must be what the country wants! Haigh was on Today spouting that rubbish this morning. Bit like buying an early Ford - have any colour as long as it is black!

OK, borrowed from Mumsnet:

start

Theresa May’s Brexit strategy hits a legal minefield

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/31/theresa-mays-brexit-strategy-hits-legal-minefield/

Theresa May’s quest for a “Canada plus” deal in Brexit talks has run into serious legal obstacles and may ultimately prove impossible, risking bitter disappointment and a political crisis next year as reality hits home.

Trade lawyers and European officials warn that even if the EU wants to grant the UK a bespoke deal that preserves unfettered access for goods and services, it cannot do so without granting parallel concessions to Canada, South Korea, and other countries that have free trade agreements.
This would open up a Pandora’s Box.

“It is a minefield. Financial institutions are fully of aware of the problem but we have not yet heard anything from the Government,”
Chris Bryant, an EU expert at lawyers Brewin Leighton Paisner.

end

Posted by BigChocFrenzy at 07.39 1st Nov.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a3072157-Westministenders-The-Return-of-Parliamentary-Sleaze

Whole post is worth reading - it's on about p18 of the thread.

Can any Brexiteers explain this away?

China is interested in taking over as much infrastructure etc as it can in UK - that is the lure.

We're being colonised?

They must be bad in their predictions - added to the warnings given by various companies etc.
I saw toady a report that the UK only paid half the amount to the EU in 2016 compared to the figure given by the Leave campaign - brought it down very low from the £350 million.
The EU has a deal with China through which the UK trades - there is a question as to how long it will take for there to be a bi-lateral agreement between the China and UK - the likely hood is that they will choose the EU over the UK every time as the market there is so much larger and the pull of the U.K being a door into the EU will be gone.
China is interested in taking over as much infrastructure etc as it can in UK - that is the lure.