Let's not forget Brexit

I remember when we had the previous referendum there was a lot of discussion as to how Oz and NZ would fare with the loss of trade with UK- I expect there were other countries too. After all this time they have managed to forge new agreements with other countries - many of them nearer than UK is.

I still miss IXL apricot jam that used to come in large tins!

There are claims that this is not true from some quarters, that declining trade with the Commonwealth is not linked to our EU membership.

However, it seems too much of a coincidence to my mind that these things were not related and it is an absolute disgrace that, if true, this was allowed to happen.

They were doing quite well but losing a lot of trade put them into years of depression. It has never had an economy similar to European ones but the principle is the same - just on a different scale.

Welshwife
How can you compare us to New Zealand. They come 55th in world trading nations, we come 10th.

Probably many believe it is just scaremongering again!
I cannot understand why, as more and more things come to light, Leavers are not doubting the wisdom of leaving the EU.
So far I have still not seen any report of anything which makes me doubt my remain vote or see anything which will benefit us leaving.
I was reading a report about farming etc when we joined the EU and stopped a lot of trade with Commonwealthe countries. It seems it took NZ 20 years to get their lamb exports in a good state agin. Are we willing to have that length of delay?

Thanks for the link, jura.

I think it might be useful to read Richard North's commentary on the session shown in the video.

I'd remind people that North is a Leaver. He has been campaigning to leave the EU ever since we joined. His commentary is intelligent and extremely well researched.

Also, that Rogers was our ambassador to the EU. He is experienced in negotiating with the other members. He knows just how things work in the EU

A snippet:

Looking at the special circumstances of the EU talks, Sir Ivan ventured that the only time when you should walk out is when the status quo is better than the deal on the table. But in this case. the status quo is not an option – it's not on offer. It's not the world we inhabit. A "no deal", therefore, is a situation without a deal. It is a situation where "you jump into the void". There is no law applicable within the space. We become a third country with no more rights of access than Venezuela or the Yemen.

Before you go for this option, Sit Ivan said, "you have to know what no deal amounts to – is that a tolerable world to inhabit? You have to go through sector by sector, area by area, and have to know exactly how it will affect each sector and area. You have to know in detail the implications in each sector/area and work through the consequences".

www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86647

You have to know in detail the implications in each sector/area

Which, unless they're lying about not having fully read the sectoral reports (or, as some speculate on twitter, they don't actually exist ), seems to be just what the 'responsible' ministers haven't actually done.

Why isn't everyone appalled by this; Leavers and Remainers?

I know experts are out of fashion. But there is a good reason why this man resigned last year- because he understood exactly what invoking article 50 meant- and that is putting al the decision making in the hands of the other 27. Anyone who read article 50 - would have seen that was VERY clear n the introduction - that a member invoking it would cease to have any part in negotiations.

Really worth listening to how he sees the possibilities for the future. I hopw some of you will watch/listen:

www.facebook.com/FullEnglishBrexit/videos/849550311885637/

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/30/revealed-ukip-whistleblowers-raised-fears-about-breitbart-influence-on-brexit?

So - Breitbart, Bannon and ... Farage - it is getting more and more sordid by the day. I must say I am not surprised- but this is seriously concerning-

When UKIP members themselves realise Farage is going too far, you need to be very concerned. But why did this not come to the surface at the time. Who wanted this hidden?

The US trades with the EU, and has a GDP of over $12 trillion, so I presume is not included in those figures.
We have a trade surplus with the US, just not through TTIP, fortunately.

That makes those figures suspect. Where did you get them from, Leave.EU?

What does a country's GDP have to do with it anyway?
How do the other countries count the EU, as lots of separate countries or as one entity?
Singapore will have a treaty with the EU, not with 28 different countries, therefore the EU GDP will be high; is that right?

Number of countries needed for fair comparison.

Perhaps someone here who is in thrall to the negotiating powers of the eu explain this.
In 2014 the eu had trade agreements with 55 countries whose aggregate GDP was $7.7 trillion.
By way of comparison the aggregate GDP of all the countries that Switzerland had agreements with was $39.8 trillion
Singapore $38.9 trillion
Chilly $58.3 trillion

South Korea $40.8 trillion
Would you employ these 'experts' mmmm. Something's wrong somewhere.

It just gets more and more outrageous.

David Davis has said that the "meaningful vote" in parliament may not happen until we have left the EU.

Who have we "given back control" to?- not our elected politicians.

This is rule by the Daily Mail -brexit at any cost.

Not my government, lemon. I take no responsibility for voting this lot in.

For now like UBS today- they are making the right noises or keepig quiet- but they are ready for catastrophe and jump ship very very quickly, if need be.

... and are the top Senior execs of many of our top financial services firms, in the City and all over the country. The Head of KPMG is Greek. They are al predicting very turbulent times ahead, and making preparations for fast move to Frankfurt and Paris, Geneva even.

Yes, and he's a 'furriner' ....

Mark Carney still says UK will probably go into recession when we leave ( we haven’t left yet btw) if there’s no deal for the financial sector. (70%GDP) Leavers may choose to sneeer at him, he’s only been a very effective Governor of the Bank of England, bit of an unimportant job really.

Nor do I have any ‘pull’ with the EU.

It’s everyone’s Government durhamjen ? and I have no more ‘pull’ than you do with them.

I saw somewhere today the amount of money it will cost UK to leave the EU - nothing to do with paying our dues for contracts signed - it was for the extra staff needed for the negotiations and then Customs people etc etc. Adds up to a hefty price - maybe cheaper to stay in!
I read a lot of reports over the weekend so sorry I cannot give references - but I was surprised at the cost.

Amber Rudd obviously knows what she intends to do about the human rights of EU citizens, but is not telling the rest of us, except by leaks.

'The Home Office is warning EU nationals held in detention centres that they should leave the UK to “avoid becoming destitute”, in the latest instance of a hardened tone towards citizens from European countries.

A government letter, written on behalf of home secretary Amber Rudd and seen by the Observer, also advises EU nationals that they should consider leaving because they have the “right to travel freely across the EU and can visit, live, study and in most cases work in any other EU member state” – an observation that appears to preempt the UK’s departure from the union.

The letter, dated 18 October and written by officials from the Home Office’s immigration section, tells a Romanian national in an immigration detention centre that his request for emergency accommodation has been rejected and he should consider another country. It states: “You could avoid becoming destitute by returning to Romania or another EU member state where you could enjoy access to all your ECHR [European Convention on Human Rights] without interference.” '

Perhaps you ought to tell your government to be a bit more sympathetic to EU migrants, lemon.
They don't appear to be listening to anyone else.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/29/home-office-eu-citizens-leave-uk-avoid-destitution

It's really annoying how much time and money is being spent on trying to Brexit . It is such a waste of time and money trying to leave free trading with 26 eu countries plus 60 plus others just to arrange free trade with the same ..all that time and expense could be focused on Us now. Anyway the rich will get richer, the poor poorer whatever so what's the point?