Corbyns Momentum

Presumably all those who find a symbolic coffin of the NHS offensive believe it is alive and well and thriving under this government. Personally I'd far rather someone used an empty coffin to draw attention to what is happening than know that the policies of this government were resulting in real coffins throughout the country.

dj, you know that the right wing media (and their supporters i.e. the Conservative party and politicians) never let facts get in the way of a good story.

Except, if you read the link, you would see that it wasn't left outside the door or on the doorstep.

I don't like the Sun but it's a national newspaper. I don't believe we can criticise MP's for being crass enough to talk to the paper about something is important as the NHS.

Given the death threats received by many MP's and the murder of Jo Cox, it could be argued that leaving a coffin on the doorstep of an MP could be perceived as threatening.

I think a coffin being left outside the door is threatening, what next a hatchet in the door?

Sarah Wollaston has voted to allow more private use of the NHS.

I suppose it's not up to us to decide if someone finds that threatening. As SW explained she has suffered lots of vandalism and constituents have felt unsafe visiting her office. Perhaps the coffin on top of the abuse was one step too far.

You can always ignore demanding posts to you GGM2 I know that I always ignore them.

Sorry gg.

I didn't realise that asking for an opinion is viewed as bullying. It happens to me all the time here on GN, so I assumed it was acceptable behaviour.

I apologise and I will call that behaviour out in future when I encounter it.

www.kingsbridge-today.co.uk/article.cfm?id=110647&headline=MP%27s%20complaint%20over%20NHS%20protest%20rejected§ionIs=news&searchyear=2017

The truth of it?

I am surprised that Sarah Wollaston did not read the signs on the coffin, saying cuts cost lives.
She has actually spoken up about cuts in parliament before.
I am also surprised that she was crass enough to talk to the S*n about it.

Don't bully Primrose. If I want to put an opinion I will, if I choose not to it is not for you to hold me to account.

I suspect you are right night owl and that the coffin was in no way a personal threat but was part of regular use of coffins to symbolise the death of the NHS.
Sarah Wollaston is one of the Conservative MP's I find easier to listen to on many subjects, particularly the NHS. I often wonder why she doesn't become an independent. Totnes isn't classic Conservative country, though the surrounding areas may well be. As a GP, I'd hoped for more from her in defending the NHS from her party.

NHS protestors have regularly made use of a coffin to symbolise the death of the NHS. This is nothing new and was certainly not a personal attack (or as some have reported a ‘threat’) against Sarah Wollaston. It may be seen as poor taste but it is ridiculous to suggest it was left outside her office as some kind of scare tactic, or to link it with the murder of Jo Cox. I think she is making political capital out of something that she knows full well was not meant in any way as a personal threat.

kittysjones.wordpress.com/2017/12/07/the-electoral-commission-has-opened-yet-another-inquiry-into-momentums-election-spending/

I would love to see where anyone has said it was okay to leave a coffin outside someone's office.
Well all the people who did it and put the photos on FB thought it was OK. So check out their posts.
Your condemnation of it is noticeably absent. What about your opinion? Do you think it's OK?

The quote about rules since 2000 is from the BBC website - linked.
The other link which doesn't seem to work for you is the Electoral Commission.
That's why you're getting the Electoral Commission 404 page. And the text says 'according to the Electoral Commission'. I don't know why you think that's a suspicious website?
Sorry about the broken link though, no idea what happened there. Here is is in full.

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-donations/changes-to-political-finance-laws-recommended,-to-improve-transparency-and-confidence-in-elections

Unfortunately, I think the site must be doing something weird with the link. But you can type in the last line if you want to validate the numbers and allay your suspicions.

I also wonder were the quote came from about 'under rules in place since 2000 ..." as the Lobbying act, which this comes under, was only, I believe, passed in 2014 and the sums allowed under it relate to any pervious complete year. It was designed for lobby groups and may well be the wrong law to use in relationship to a snap election. Let's hope this is looked at too.

The link takes you to 'page not found' casting an even more suspicious view on the sources used. As a registered non-party campaigner they have spent under the amount allowed.

Obviously the Electoral Commission should look into this; it is essential to democracy that rules a appropriate, clear and obeyed. When the response to this investigation is so clearly political as it has been on here, it would be a good thing to remember that the Conservative were basically let off the hook over their overspending. The Conservatives effectively bought three bi-elections.

Perhaps, in a cross-party consensus, the rules should be reviewed.

I would love to see where anyone has said it was okay to leave a coffin outside someone's office.

Also Momentum are under investigation by the Electoral Commission

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42264630

"Under rules in place since 2000, non-party campaigners who wish to undertake "targeted spending" - intended to influence people to vote for one particular registered political party or any of its candidates - have to do so within prescribed limits.
The limits - £31,980 in England, £3,540 in Scotland, £2,400 in Wales and £1,080 in Northern Ireland - applied during the regulated period 9 June 2016 to 8 June 2017."

Momentum reported spending £38,743 according to the Electoral Commission so £257 to spare then!

Now it seems OK to leave a coffin outside Sarah Wollaston's constituency office.
www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/mp-angry-coffin-left-outisde-877787

Dr Wollaston said: “The crass insensitivity of delivering a coffin effigy to a woman MP seems to have passed some people by.

My office has already been repeatedly targeted with aggressive vandalism by those who can’t abide reasoned debate and want to make it harder for people to access their MP.

My message to Labour, who were part of Saturday’s march and encouraged people to join it, since sadly this does not appear to be obvious, is that you cannot preach about ‘gentler politics’ and allow someone to leave a coffin at my door."

Endorsed by the Labour front bench apparently. What a stupid stunt.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/16/jeremy-corbyn-leadership-david-cameron-libya-labour

According to Chris Mullin's biography, a policeman once said to him that he would not have dared join the policeforce if it wasn't for Mullin's work on the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four. He was London Irish.

Some people on here are complimentary about Mo Mowlam but critical of Corbyn because of his perceived support for the IRA. But she also was accused of inappropriately friendly relationships with republicans and was apparently loathed by members of the Ulster Unionist Party who felt she was partisan. Yet many people believe that her conciliatory approach was instrumental in paving the way for the Good Friday Agreement.

Margaret Thatcher was very keen to voice her firmly held decision that her government would have no dealings with the IRA . However, papers released over the last few years have shown that representatives of the British government were indeed having secret talks with representatives of the IRA. Other documents have also shown that the British government was not a "neutral" bystander in the "troubles" but colluded with loyalist groups who were murdering IRA activists.

My understanding is that Corbyn, amongst many other people, including Chris Mullin, campaigned for the release of the Birmingham 6 who had been found guilty of the pub bombings but who were later cleared. The relatives of those killed in the pub bombings have continued to call for the release of all the documents in this case and Corbyn has supported them in that request.

I was looking at photos of some NI nationalists , you would be hard put to distinguish between them and an outfit like Britain First. No one was innocent of killing.