Westminster and sexual harassment

I agree its a power thing. When I first went to work the boss used to get all the young girls in the office to line up in the morning to see who had the shortest mini, we were all 16/17, some thought he was just a dirty old man and laughed it off others were uneasy, I left pretty quickly so have no idea how long it went on for. A friend said in her typing pool they used to pair up to go to the loo as they had to cross a large open office and had all sorts of things said to them every time plus some touching. We are going back to the sixties I admit.

I think what most of you are missing about this whole furore around unwanted sexual attention is that the men involved had power over the future of the women. It is about abuse of power and 20 years ago JHB would have been at the start of her career. What else has MF done in the last 20 years? The female activist who made allegations against the Labour MP was discouraged(!) from taking the matter further at the time, so no support there.

The JHB incident is very small beer compared with some of the other allegations coming out of the woodwork, but almost all of them the women were in a situation where their careers could be ruined. It's not always an easy option to say no or speak up. It's much easier to be wise after the event.

I agree with Anniebach. It happened a long time ago when we would all have to admit things were different. It wasn't acceptable, it wasn't serious and it was dealt with quite properly by the woman. I believe she was just 'getting on to the bandwagon' by telling all so many years later.

Surely had she done so he would have apologised, said it was accidental and she’d have been left looking like an idiot.

There was nothing to stop her from humiliating him at the time of the alleged 'touching'
They WERE in company so a 'take your hands off my leg you dirty git' loud and clear would or should have done the trick.

You would think these, allegedly intelligent grown ups would know how to behave appropriately without having to be told.

There was a time when the touchers were perceived as pests, rather than committing an offence, but it was never acceptable, they knew it then and should know it now. There is more bad behaviour than the JHB knee touching from Fallon, and he had to go, a Foreign Secretary with sleazy skeletons in his cupboard could be a target for blackmail so he did the right thing by jumping before he was pushed.

But it's like lovebeigecardigans1955 says, GrandtanteJE65 we weren't brought up to tell people where they get off.

Also agree with you, Quizqueen about the bars.

For a start they should get rid of all the bars in both Houses of Parliament. What other places of employment encourage a drinking culture at work and a subsidised one at that? People and alcohol coupled with working long hours away from home often equals trouble.

In my candid opinion both men and women and children will behave as we let them behave. So if you don't like someone's behaviour TELL THEM SO!

If you feel they were abusing their position, or if the offence is a legal offence report them to the relevant authority.

It's no good keeping quiet about unacceptable behaviour and expecting laws to be passed preventing it, nor for minor infractions like touching someone inappropriately should we need laws. Adult men and women ought to know what is acceptable and what is not, and again if they don't know tell them where they get off!

Princesspamma - I'm with you 100%.

I suspect that MF resigned so he could look good, and self-sacrificing, before more serious claims came to light - I hope (for the women's sake) to be proved wrong.

Spilling your drink in their lap would cool their ardour.

Like many women I've put up with this sort of nonsense in the past. At my first job the middle-aged male boss would send another girl on an errand, then ask me inappropriate questions about my underwear. I was brought up to be polite, not to say boo to a goose - not an advantage when going out into this wicked world. I didn't know how to cope. I eventually got another job.
At the Job Centre they'd noticed that this vacancy came up every few weeks - could I tell them why? Mum was with me and didn't like a fuss. I told them and they said that they'd keep an eye on it.
That was the trouble - my generation was brought up not to make a fuss, don't rock the boat, etc. I think it's good that at last young women (and men) have the courage to say, "On your bike Grandad," I wish I'd been braver.

If you are talking about Julia Hartley-Brewer, she made it clear that she was NOT complaining and was not traumatised. That was not the reason Fallon resigned; more will come out.

Basically women have put up with it for too long. It’s completely unexceptional.

I wonder if any male researchers will complain about their their treatment at the hands (!) of female MPs?

I feel in the current climate, it might be wise to ban all office parties this year.....

Rosina, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The woman handled it, its over. As I said yesterday in another post on the subject... You give as good as you get...nine times out of ten that solves the problem! The ones I am concerned about are the secret predators that make lives a misery for both men and women for years and years..and getting in the way of promotion etc....they're the ones we should be focusing on...not "the hand on the knee" numpties. I was watching the one show the other night and Richard Branson must have touched the shoulder and the arm of the other female guest numerous times...I noticed it as its something we don't really see happening these days....I don't think he was doing it consciously..its just "old school", as they say, but I think it should be brought to his attention that he can't do this sort of thing anymore without a furore!!

Surely it is only sexual harassment where the behaviour continues even after the pursued has asked for the behaviour to stop or where the pursuer is using his superior position to suggest that something untoward would happen to the person's career if the pursued said no. At what point does a friendly gesture become harassment?
My husband is likely to be more touchy feely when he has had a drink but he is likely to be so in front of me. He doesn't intend any offence but I am quick to remind him!
When I first went to work at the Civil Service, I was told there was someone you avoided being on your own in the same room with so that's what I did. If he ever came near me, I gave off very strong signals that his attention wasn't wanted. On the one occasion he overstepped the bounds, I put him straight immediately even though he was in a senior position.
Let's bring our girls up to be able to say "No," whatever the circumstances and our boys up to be respectful no matter what. Early intervention is much more helpful rather than a witch hunt of those who weren't brought up that way but in a generation where men could pretty much do as they liked.

I understand he resigned because he could not guarantee that there would be further reports, which now seem to have come to light. That is what I heard on the news anyway. So I agree the first incident that made headlines was not really the point.

SueDoko They've released generalised statements, yes. I suppose I meant they were not attacking the Tories for their bad behaviour, which made me wonder why not.
They only suspended Kelvin Hopkins after the victim went to the national press. They were asked for comments about him a few days ago - after Corbyn made his statement. They knew, but they did nothing until they were forced into action by a newspaper. That's disappointing, as they are sending out a message that it's OK to be a sexual harasser if you're not publically shamed. It's saying their process is a sham. It's saying they don't take this seriously.

I sort of feel like the OP - I don't agree that it is ok to pat knees, make inappropriate, leery remarks, etc, and i wouldnt put up with it, or would ever do so, even back then. However a lot of these things are 'historic', and happened 20 plus years ago. No, they were never acceptable. However, the culture was different then, and we need to remember that. I think we all agree that slavery is abhorrent, but go back 300 years or whatever, and the culture was very different, and most people agreed with slavery, many profiting from it. Do we punish each of us now because of our ancestors' attitudes? It is slightly different, I know, but i don't think It is fair to punish people now for doing what was considered completely acceptable in society at the time. Yes, make it absolutely clear that it WAS wrong, and WILL NOT be tolerated any more, but i think we do have to draw a line somewhere, and move forward in a better direction. And of course serious sexual assault and rape are completely different, and yes should be punished, where the truth can be found, but a bit of wolf whistling, a few off colour remarks and some touchy-feely behaviours....really, are we so fragile? I didn't stand for it even as a young and less confident woman, and i think a few firm put-downs, bent-back fingers and even threats to tell a boss or a wife gets the message across to even the most blatant office sleaze.

Primrose Labour have released several statements about this issue: www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/essentials/news/uk/jeremy-corbyn-releases-stinging-statement-labour-sexual-harassment-complaints/amp/#ampshare=https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/uk/jeremy-corbyn-releases-stinging-statement-labour-sexual-harassment-complaints/
Not exactly silent..??

Actually she didn’t complain it got out. Even she said it was in the past.
I think all this coming out is good. All women have a story to tell and it is wrong. I don’t invade men’s spaces and talk/touch inappropriately. Why should they just because it happened in the past?.

No wonder sex robots are being made and sold, all normal human relations are being rendered fraught and dangerous.

Unless someone is co erced into something serious, a bit of banter, horse play etc is perfectly nomal human behaviour. The alternatives are, erasing of all sexual behaviours which would include wearing make up, dressing as we please etc.
People are turning to the internet now for sexual gratification because the normality of human behaviour is undermined by constant witch hunts. a nd PC nonsense.

If women want to wear make up and dress to impress, and to stimulate in some cases, then they have to learn to be wiser and take some controls.

Women are in danger of phasing themselves out. The workplace is where women want to be treated equally but reserve the right to behave like simpering little girls.

I was shocked that Andrea had made such a fuss about a jokey bit of banter from years ago and threatened the position of her own party's PM. She has gone down in my estimation.

We will all be wearing the burka at this rate, talking ourselves into the position where male /female relations are seen as suspect and threatening.

Women rarely complain when a wealthy and handsome man makes a pass, look at the success of that vile 'Fifty Shades of Grey' series......

There are far more important things for us to be considering at the moment than this nonsense, however delicious it is to watch. I am enjoying watching all the peope who are so lofty about Trump, squirming now their own pigeons have come home to roost.

As for naked pics of Diane Abbot, PLEASE stop.....the media seem to think we are all interested in 'wardrobe malfunctions' and 'nip slips' and other people's bodies in general. All a bit childish really.

Sex is currency and that is the way nature intended, we can't alter that we can only mae it more ridiculous.