British workers are among the worst idlers in the world

More Leave voters calling to be made a special case, Morgana?

I don't think any veg that hasn't been harvested is a result of Brexit.

Fruit and vegetables are being left to rot on British farms because of a shortage of labour, according to the National Farmers’ Union, which is calling on the government to implement a seasonal agricultural workers scheme to fix the problem.

www.ft.com/content/13e183ee-c099-11e7-b8a3-38a6e068f464

I thought Cornwall voted to leave. .....

Merlot, this is not what they are experiencing in Cornwall. They are really concerned about the daffodils crops this Spring, and Council leaders are:

Council leader Adam Paynter said: “Many of our major industries such as horticulture could be severely impacted and are already feeling the pinch with some of our crops rotting in the fields following a sharp fall in the number of EU workers.

“We are working with local partners to improve skills and employment for local people, but there will always be an important place in the Cornish economy for seasonal and migrant workers, particularly in the horticultural industry.

"We are calling on the government to take a place-based approach to future migration, to make sure that the Cornish economy has access to skills which may not be highly valued in London but which are vital to a major rural economy like ours.”

Equally far-left or extreme-left politics are terms used to describe political positions farther to the left on the political spectrum than the standard political left. As we haven't reached the level of the Nordic countries social democracy with what our left-wing is suggesting, and as the right are grabbing their policies very rapidly it says to me that there is no "far left" in government.

On the hand while we certainly have very few who have openly espouse the politics of 'whiteness' - often the social/cultural side of the far right - there are many who proselytise their religion of far right neoliberal economics.

I don't think any veg that hasn't been harvested is a result of Brexit. There has been no shortage of seasonal European workers around here.

There have been crop failures due to adverse weather conditions and problems with supermarkets over projecting on quantities needed before the crops have been planted.

Far-right politics is a term used to describe politics further on the right of the left-right spectrum than the standard political right, particularly in terms of more extreme nationalist, and nativist ideologies, as well as authoritarian tendencies.

Interested to see that you have made up a version to suit yourself POFS.

Sadly, there is a small minority (as in most countries, mine included) - who are not keen on working- and happy to sponge on others. With fruit and veg rotting in the fields- perhaps all of them who voted leave should be drafted tp pick them.

POGS

Far Right - Want to completely eliminate the role of the state in providing any public services at all and to completely deregulate all workers' statutory rights/welfare provisions (e.g. wages, health & safety, working time, holidays etc)

Far Left - Total state control of everything (I could elaborate but I think that says it all)

Gracesgran

"This women is part of the far-right scum who have risen to the surface of the Tory party over recent years and she shares their neoliberal view of economics"

You too are one of a handful of posters who keep using the term far right/extreme right wingers in their posts.

Often a question is asked of posters what does 'far left'/'extreme left' left wingers mean to them so can I ask what do you think 'extreme right' /'far right' right wingers means to you. ?

Maisie d

'They most of them seem to be extreme rightwingers'

You are one of a handful of posters who keep using the term far right/extreme right wingers in their posts.

Often a question is asked of posters what does 'far left'/'extreme left' left wingers mean to them so can I ask what do you think 'extreme right' /'far right' right wingers means to you. ?

The Normans were the last invaders to take England by conquest, Fennel. Ireland and Malta are islands, too, and they don't seem to have any problems with the EU. But then they both have experience of being occupied/ruled by other nations. So perhaps that's what makes them look for strength as small sovereign nations in a community which is founded on co-operation rather than competition.

When I voted to Remain in 1975 it was partly because I felt that we were too isolated from Europe and that we should recognise that we are part of the continent. I really don't feel any differently now.

I'm finding it odd that a throw away remark in a speech made over 200 years ago (the context of which we have no idea about) should still be used as an 'anti-statistics' argument. As has been pointed out, statistics have been hugely beneficial in improving many areas of life. Our national hero, Florence Nightingale, spent the larger part of her very long life working with statistics to improve the medical care and living conditions of the British Army.

Additionally, whoever said 'there are lies, damned lies and statistics' should have been stifled at birth (unfortunately it was another of our national heroes ).

I'm also both amused and scared by this media campaign against universities. For a start, I doubt if most courses of study go anywhere near the topic of the EU. It would very properly be covered in subjects such as Law, History and Politics but even so, unless things have changed greatly since I studied History at uni; it was a case of 'Here are the books about it, read them and argue a case for or against'. Lecturers most definitely didn't tell you what you should think.

Universities may have debating societies Lyndie but they are not debating societies they are places of education.

Of course you should question the validity of statistics, it’s what scientists must demonstrate in their findings,. Of course you can never “prove a truth” since that isn’t a scientific concept - but you can support or refute an hypothesis with statistics.

I think Daisynance made a good point on page 2, about the UK being an island nation. As well as being cut off geographically from the rest of Europe, we haven't had to face the threat of invasion for ages (since the vikings?) as others have. This must have an effect on our mentality.
Living in France I've found that the memory of occupation here is still very prevalent in many ways.
In a lighter mood, when I saw the title of this thread I thought of that song " 'Right' said Fred."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge_4SlJWfl0

How do w know they are biased? I know the DM says that but ........

I would suggest they shouldn't be biased but put both sides off the argument.

fullfact.org/education/how-much-money-do-british-universities-get-eu/

Here are the facts about how much the EU gives the universities - about 2% of their total,income - I wouldn’t call this pumping a lot of money in. I’d call it 2%.

So you are saying that the EU is buying the opinions of university lecturers? Maybe it’s just that the lecturers are better informed?

The EU pump a lot of money into our university system. Guess what the lectures said in a letter. Most are remainers and they reach our children. I heard in the radio some young university students saying they kept quiet if they were brexiteers. Things are never as they seem!

In the meantime, Farage has again been filmed during a talk saying that he would don kakis and take his gun to the streets if Brexit does not go ahead. At what stage should he be arrested for peddling hatred and violence, again and again?

Humm Norah let me try and think about that.Canning said that you can’t prove the truth with statistics - that’s true but it’s not what statistics are for - so is the opposite true that you can prove the truth with statistics? I think the same argument stands - statistics is about probabilities so degrees of liklihood not truth per se. My head hurts ?

maryeliza54, your quote: "Anyone who says statistics can prove the truth knows nothing about statistics. "

Do you mean for there to be a NOT in there ^ I wonder?

For example, getting away from the referendum. We have a figure of 8.2 for maternal mortality in this country. This is quite hard data as the figures for this type of death are as accurate as you could probably get. However,that figure on its own is of limited value except for comparing us across time and with other countries. The really importantv work comes from identifying the causes of the death and any relationships/associations that exist - ie what factors make a death more likely? Having that factor does not mean you will die but that your risk is increased. That sort of knowledge allows services to be designed that target women at higher risk ( exactly the same happens with infant mortality). Statistics over the years have saved and improved lives - policy makers just need to be able to understand them and their limitations

OBVIOUSLY That is why Britain called for help from other countries after the war
But could that be due also to the fact that so many of our young men - and women - who would have made up our workforce lost their lives in that war?

^ I do sneakingly admire some of the young Europeans who have made the effort to seek a new life here and are working hard and valued by employers^
Yes, I agree, but the enterprising British have always done that too - and still do.
It is interesting to note that in other countries it is often the 'local workers' who are not interested in putting in a fair day's work for a good day's pay and 'foreign' workers (including British) who are the willing and hardest workers.