Paradise Papers

That’s quite an allegation whitewave saying ‘Certainly if you look at those who supported Brexit and funded the Brexit camp all seem to be implicated in dodgy financial dealings or major tax avoidance’ ! Do you have private information on all of them?

I would be very surprised if the Queen knew anything about her invested funds, there will be various bods looking after her private finances.

'the' Queen. She's almost certainly not personally complicit in anything, and it's very wrong of people to say that she is. Where's your proof?!

I think perhaps we should all be scrutinising exactly where our pension income is coming from, state and private. Not many people would know precisely where the money we invest ends up, even the most vigilant of us, as where it starts, i.e., the bank, building society Insurance, often isn't where it ends. So castigating th Queen is, I think, very unfair.

A really decent society is one that goes beyond behaving legally - it behaves ethically. ER and her supporters can't have it both ways - we are told what a role model she is, how she contributes to the very cohesion and moral fabric of our society. In that case, she should be setting the example to those of her subjects who think that the letter of the law is all that matters. I also want to reiterate the point I made earlier about the problem of offshore trusts being about much much more than tax avoidance - participating in these trusts means participating and implicitly condoning a whole range of behaviours that result from money laundering - ER should be ashamed of herself for being complicit in this.

Just watching a bod from the Cayman Islands explaining away the reasons for putting your money off shore

Well if you believe that you will believe anything!!

I'm with Gillybob and Whitew on these matters. Anyway I have no time for the privileged class in their ivory towers they must laugh up their sleeves at these mere peasants going to food banks etc. But yes the law SHOULD be changed to tighten up all the so called legal loopholes.

Certainly if you look at those who supported Brexit and funded the Brexit camp, all seem to be implicated in dodgy financial dealings or major tax avoidance.

and as said above, this is what the EU is doing - and probably the main reason behind Brexit

The sanctions and money laundering bill currently under consideration must all tie into this as well.

Most of us don't have the choice of whether we choose to pay our taxes or not. I agree with Nandalot the queen does not need to know every little minor detail about her various investments but should make it clear that they are all to be above board and ethical. Part of me puzzles why an incredibly rich and privileged woman in her 90's needs to squirrel money away in dodgy investments. It's not as though her grandchildren are going to need it for a deposit on their starter home is it?

"It's only not illegal because those who do it have greater sway over what is allowed and what isn't."

Exactly And they have a greater sway because they use their money to gain access to decision makers. Direct personal access in a way that the ordinary citizen cannot. It makes a mockery of democracy.

Of course the law needs changing, but just watch the wealthy media, and wealthy powerful screech and argue when such changes are suggested.

Ignorance is what is being touted by those being questioned about the morality of their actions.

If what you are doing is morally wrong, it is absolutely no defence to say it is legal.

Whitewave "Ignorance is no defence in law" but the point is surely that no one is suggesting that anyone has broken the law?

The point I thought I had made clearly, but obviously not since it has been made again by others, is that this keeps cropping up and it is the law which needs to be changed. I also made the point that I think it needs international cooperation which is probably why it hasn't happened.

If someone is putting their money/assets off shore, we as ordinary punters have no way of knowing whether what the wealthy person is doing is legal or not. We only have their word for it. Only HMRC will know for sure.

If tax avoidance isn't illegal that's surely the government's fault. I can't hand-on-heart say I wouldn't jump at the chance to pay less tax (although I don't imagine this will ever be something I'll need to seriously consider), Sorry, sure I'm letting you all down with this view.

IMO Tax avoidance is simply tax evasion for those who can afford to do it and afford to employ a solicitor to justify what they are doing and avoid the penalties for not paying tax.
It's only not illegal because those who do it have greater sway over what is allowed and what isn't.
Would you do it if you had the money or the knowledge?

Good point, Jura.
Re. the Queen. She might not know the minutiae of her investments but with all the furore that has surrounded such offshore investments in recent months, she could have laid down some ethical principles for her brokers to follow. There are plenty of ethical and laudable ways to invest money rather than the rich pickings from the funds in question provide.

Making tax avoidance illegal is exactly what the EU has done - and the whole Brexit debacle is based on avoiding getting caught on avoidance ...

I'm not so sure about that icanhandthemback paying tax should not be seen as a burden, we should be pleased to know that we are contributing to our country, not try to take money away from it.
I believe J K Rowling pays all her taxes.

If what they are doing is not illegal, it seems somewhat questionable that this is big news. However, if we don't like that this is legal, we need to push to change the tax law. We can do this without naming and shaming. I can't imagine many people who wouldn't like to minimise their tax bill if they could do it legally.

Ignorance is no defence in law. This will apply to all who say they left it to their accountants.

But ask if these “loans” are being relayed with interest? Of course they aren’t. HMRC needs to get their act together.

The Queen had apparently invested c£3000 in Bright House so I really don't think she knew about it.

I am not so sure that many of those in the programme know where there money is either. I used to work for the CEO of the European division of a worldwide company. He didn't know where his money was, he paid KPMG to sort out all those things for him. They even told him how many days he had left to spend in the UK to avoid being a resident for tax purposes.

If I invest my savings in a fund I won't know exactly where my money is going, I will leave it to the fund manager to sort that out to my advantage.

I don't think the programme showed that anyone did anything illegal but the way they portrayed it implied that they did. I do think that it is immoral to avoid paying tax altogether but I don't think people should be taxed on the same money twice, once in the UK and once where the money is spent.

Surely the answer is to make what is deemed immoral illegal and then the tax would be paid? This is just the same old story which crops up every few years and makes me wonder why the law hasn't changed. Is it because it needs international cooperation to make it work?