Gransnet forums

News & politics

Transgender news

(18 Posts)
Rosina Sun 12-Nov-17 17:02:38

Today I am alarmed to read that there is a move to allow very young people to 'trans' without consultation or discussion with their parents.
Quite how this situation will arise was not explained, but what does concern me is that I always understood part of maturing and becoming a sexually aware young person might often involve getting a tremendous 'crush', for want of a better word, on a member of the same sex. This is often someone a few years older, and is a normal stage of development as the object of admiration is what the adolescent aspires to be. Is there a real danger that a young person, going through a normal stage of their young life with these feelings, likely to be told they need to declare themselves as gay, or change gender, as there seems to be so much pressure to declare individual sexuality? I have not read one single article that refers to this recognised stage of development.

dbDB77 Sun 12-Nov-17 17:33:49

There was a very good article by Janice Turner in yesterday's Times - she started by highlighting TopShop's decision to allow men who self-define as women to use women's changing rooms. She then went on to talk about the wider implications & developments - I don't know whether a link would work so here's an extract:

This week the Scottish government published its transgender guidance for schools, drawn up solely by activist groups such as Mermaids. If Justine Greening implements a highly contentious women and equalities committee report, such rules will apply everywhere. On changing rooms it states: “If a learner feels uncomfortable sharing facilities with a transgender young person, they can be allowed to use a private facility . . . or to get changed after the trans young person is done.” So if a girl objects to showering with a male-bodied pupil, she must go elsewhere or wait outside. For overnight trips: “If a transgender young person is sharing a room with their peers, there is no reason for parents of the other young people to be informed.” So you have no business knowing if your daughter is sleeping alongside someone born a boy.
It recommends schools allow a child to change gender without parental consent. Moreover, if parents are not wholly behind a child’s decision: “It may be useful to approach the local authority for additional guidance”, ie report them to social services, perhaps to question custody.

The whole issue is very worrying.

BlueBelle Sun 12-Nov-17 17:43:25

I may have got this wrong but my understanding of Top shop was that the male and female changing rooms would no longer be in seperate parts of the shop but now together with just cubicle curtains between and in essence not just about transgender men using women’s changing rooms but about everyone using the same area

minesaprosecco Sun 12-Nov-17 18:22:39

The Top Shop decision is just a tiny part of this whole subject. It is good that gender is being discussed, but the proposals in the amendments to the Gender Recognition Act mean that anyone can decide what gender they want to be identified as, and then be treated as such legally. The positive side of this is that those with true gender dysphoria will more easily be able to live their lives without prejudice; however, the negative side is that a predatory man (and by that I do NOT mean every male before anyone labels me a man hater!) can say he wants to identify as a woman and therefore have access to women only places e.g. women's refuges, changing rooms in swimming pools etc. It is worth reading some of the threads on Mumsnet about this, where legitimate concerns about women's rights are being raised.

Ilovecheese Sun 12-Nov-17 18:55:22

There is also some concern about men who are identifying as women being allowed to compete in women's sports events.

minesaprosecco Sun 12-Nov-17 20:00:39

It is worth contacting your MP about this so they can be made aware of our concerns.

vampirequeen Sun 12-Nov-17 21:53:08

I don't think being transgender is the same as having a crush on someone of the same gender. Transgender people know they have the wrong body.

paddyann Sun 12-Nov-17 22:46:02

transgender is NOT the same as having a crush..or of being gay .I know two young people transgendering ,it took a hell of a lot of courage to make the decision and a lot of guts to tell people .They dont want to cause harm to anyone ,just to be able to live their lives the way they feel they SHOULD have been born

winterwhite Sun 12-Nov-17 22:58:19

The proposed legislation with provisions for children as young as primary school age to take decisions about their gender without reference to their parents must surely be dangerous. First of all, don't teachers have enough to do teaching our children? Is it really right to add this to their burdens? And where does parental responsibility end? Where are the safeguards against a child taking this decision without proper support and regretting it a few years later, and who would then pick up the pieces?

Katek Sun 12-Nov-17 23:08:02

Very interesting Louis Theroux programme on transgender this evening looking at children as young as 5. It must be available on catchup somewhere, worth viewing. It’s definitely not a case of a “crush” - these youngsters wanted to become the opposite gender.

BlueBelle Mon 13-Nov-17 05:51:18

I thought that was an interesting but a bit disturbing programme when the lady assessor spoke of children of 18 months telling their Mums ‘not boy girl mummy’
I just wish we could keep these kind of worries out of the primary school
I can’t help feeling this is going to be a fashion now My friends’ daughter became a ‘son’ a couple of years ago at the age of 11 (not medically I should add) she changed her name cut her hair and used male clothes and boys walk talk etc, two years later she is now a girl again and back to how she was
I feel for people in ‘ the wrong body’ and am glad there is more understanding and help but am concerned it’s going to be a whole new world for many who are just going through normal teenage confusion and hope that it will not be too easy to change around

Rosina Tue 14-Nov-17 12:07:05

I think maybe I didn't make myself too clear in the original post; I fully appreciate the differences between a transexual and a homosexual/lesbian. I should have said that I am concerned that parents are not to be consulted at all if children express a wish to be the opposite sex, and I am also concerned that a normal stage of emotional, sexual development - i.e strong feelings for the same sex, might become a situation where an adolescent is encouraged to think they are gay when this is not the case - as I said, not one article has mentioned this well known stage of development.

Newquay Tue 14-Nov-17 22:42:30

I find the whole subject very worrying. Really feel for those genuinely born in wrong body (how come this is happening so much now? What on earth are we doing?) but equally am concerned as OP said about adolescent mistakes and about perverts taking advantage.

Nelliemoser Tue 14-Nov-17 23:23:26

Rosina you posted.. Today I am alarmed to read that there is a move to allow very young people to 'trans' without consultation or discussion with their parents.
What is your definition of "very young people"?

As far as I know the legal situation of "Gillick competence" still applies. The parents will have to be referred to unless the child is considered to be competent to understand all the issues involved and the child has been assessed for what is still known as "Gillick competent". (usually about 16yrs old)

Gillick competency and Fraser guidelines refer to a legal case which looked specifically at whether doctors should be able to give contraceptive advice or treatment to under 16-year-olds without parental consent.

However I do worry that some of the transgender lobbyers are not behaving entirely responsibly with regard to vulnerable younger people.

Rosina Thu 16-Nov-17 16:34:17

Nellimoser , the article I saw was referring to school age children, and although it wasn't specific, 'children' was enough to make me think that it was not necessarily those over the age of sixteen.

Primrose65 Thu 16-Nov-17 16:50:02

Interesting discussion about gender and identity on the Moral Maze this week.

varian Tue 02-Jan-18 17:19:32

Dr Ben Barres, distinuished American neuroscientist and campaigner for women's rights has just died, aged 63.

Dr Barres was born a woman and named Barbara Barres, and transitioned to a man at the age of 42.

When she was a student one professor assumed that a particularly brilliant piece of work "must have been done by her boyfriend". She did not have a boyfriend and the work was her own.

A few years after neuroscientist Ben Barres became a tenured professor at Stanford, he overheard a colleague talking about one of his classes: “Ben Barres gave a great seminar today, but then his work is much better than his sister’s.”

varian Tue 02-Jan-18 19:29:48

Distinguished nuroscientist -first as a woman and then as a man.