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I see the EU Remainers' PROJECT FEAR is alive and well.

(1001 Posts)
Day6 Thu 23-Nov-17 17:54:27

I look forward to us leaving the EU.

The scare-mongering Remainers write post after post predicting how awful it will be. (Yes, predicting...)

Anyone would think we were incapable of knowing right from wrong and desperately in need of Brussels to guide us, to make our laws, to impose trading tariffs, generally control us, tell us who we have to accept into the country and take BILLIONS from us for the privilege of that control.

Project Fear - we have recognised it.

We need to get on with leaving the EU, pronto, but Remainers delight in the delays, mostly caused by terrified EU officials worried about EU budgets and the UK forging ahead without it's stranglehold.

Optimism rules. Let's bin Project Fear. We see it for what it is.

mostlyharmless Fri 08-Dec-17 10:31:27

So obfuscation and "constructive ambiguity" all round. Most responses show relief and even satisfaction.
"Full alignment" might be controversial. To me it means soft Brexit - paving the way for a customs union of some sort.
But I see Michael Gove interpreted the agreement as "coming out of the single market and the customs union".
I expect more analysis will follow.

nigglynellie Fri 08-Dec-17 10:24:29

Phew, a close run thing, and yes lemon, I for one am rejoicing! Now for the next stage with renewed vigour and the wind in our sails. Well done Mrs May , we've already raised a cup (of tea!) to you in this house!

Blinko Fri 08-Dec-17 10:09:55

Border, border, border....NOT boarder. (Sorry, probably wrong thread, should be pedants' corner.) Just saying.

whitewave Fri 08-Dec-17 09:52:12

Tell that to the homeless and those whose children are hungry and crying for food. Children when given a choice choose food above a toy lemon

You sound terribly air-headed

whitewave Fri 08-Dec-17 09:49:40

So it does seem that May is aiming for a soft Brexit, and a no deal seems unlikely now.

So Norway or Canada seems a high possibility now, which is the best we can hope for. The trouble with Canada is the financial services not being taken into account, plus it isn’t in the CU which would have implication for Ireland and hard border Perhaps something inbetween the two?

It has got to be good when Farage is tweeting about humiliation though

maryeliza54 Fri 08-Dec-17 09:44:15

It’s good that we can move onto the next stage upon which so much of our future prosperity will depend and especially good of course about the border. But it’s done absolutely nothing to brighten my Christmas - now there’s the really tough work re trade negotiations.We could have been at this stage months ago if the government had been half competent and if TM hadn’t called a completely completely unneccesay election which cost over £1.5 bn and lost us much time including the 6 weeks of campaigning and all the time since in negotiating with the DUP. And all the domestic stuff in the long grass - a great and ungloomy Christmas indeed for the homeless, the families living in one room in b&b, those waiting for UC and NHS treatment. Plenty of gloom and doom methinks if you’re not wearing blinkers and you have a proper home, sufficient money and good health.

lemongrove Fri 08-Dec-17 09:16:49

This should lessen some of the gloom and doom, and brighten everybody’s Christmas.

lemongrove Fri 08-Dec-17 09:15:16

Agreements for EU workers here, and Brits living in EU countries for their rights to stay.smile

lemongrove Fri 08-Dec-17 09:13:55

We will be out of the customs union and the single market,
And this ‘alignment’ agreement is the best and probably the only solution for the Irish problem.For me, ( not to mention the whole of Ireland) this is the most important aspect.
So, very happy today and hope others will be too.

GracesGranMK2 Fri 08-Dec-17 09:06:23

"In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain FULL ALIGNMENT with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation"

This gives me some hope for an agreement that works for all the people not less than half of them.

GracesGranMK2 Fri 08-Dec-17 09:04:51

Obviously we should remember that this has still to be agreed by the 27. It is likely to go through but it is not yet a done deal.

Pragmatism will be the name of the game in the next round. Mike Jakeman from the Economist Intelligence Unit was just saying that a clear pattern of negotiation has emerged where we see the UK and the EU start from quite different positions, they harden themselves into those positions and then the UK realises a compromise has to be struck an they start to make concessions. He thinks that is very much the patter we continue to see throughout the entire negotiation process.

He sees the obstacles as the sectors of the UK economy that want special treatment, e.g., agriculture and automotive, and that getting opt outs in those areas will be quite difficult.

lemongrove Fri 08-Dec-17 08:50:02

What? Nobody else rejoicing? How strange!

lemongrove Fri 08-Dec-17 08:49:02

Hooray!
On to the next stage of negotiations now, and all sides happy in Ireland, which is really good news.smile

whitewave Fri 08-Dec-17 08:42:48

Exactly gg

GracesGranMK2 Fri 08-Dec-17 08:28:37

All I can think now whitewave is that this will be off the top of the news in the run up to Christmas when we can see just how ugly the behavior of the Government has been, going on behind the scenes, towards those in need. Not what I would want approaching Christmas but far less what thousands would want and will be in dire need while they deal with it.

whitewave Fri 08-Dec-17 08:09:57

Dunt tweet

This can has been shoved very firmly down the road to avoid a no deal horror show for business in 2018

whitewave Fri 08-Dec-17 08:08:14

Well phase 1 which is the easiest bit completed the hardest by far is now ahead of us and of course all those fans.

Remind me how much time have we used to date, how much time is left?

GracesGranMK2 Fri 08-Dec-17 08:05:30

Leave EU tweet:

"Complete Capitulation - UK-EU joint report: "In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain FULL ALIGNMENT with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation.""

whitewave Fri 08-Dec-17 08:03:59

Dunt and others reckon that May has caved in on everything

GracesGranMK2 Fri 08-Dec-17 08:03:39

Maximillian Hoffman tweets:

Brief summary

1) DUP gets commitment there won’t be a Customs border in Irish Sea (para 45)

2) Regulatory alignment not explicitly mentioned, but essentially still there in para 48, 49

3) There’s plenty of kicking the can into the second phase (para 56)

GracesGranMK2 Fri 08-Dec-17 08:01:55

Nicola Sturgeon tweets: "Move to phase 2 of talks good - but devil is in the detail and things now get really tough. If #Brexit is happening (wish it wasn’t) staying in single market & customs union is only sensible option. And any special arrangements for NI must be available to other UK nations."

whitewave Fri 08-Dec-17 08:00:51

Ian Dunt reckons it is a shift towards a soft Brexit

GracesGranMK2 Fri 08-Dec-17 08:00:06

Lib Dems tweet: "Still no solution to prevent a hard boarder between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Huge obstacle to Govt's. Brexit plans being kicked into long grass"

whitewave Fri 08-Dec-17 07:59:38

gg yes it is a fudge and the proverbial can is shoved yet again down the road, god knows what will happen when they eventually come across this wall of cans, perhaps they are hoping they won’t be around then.

Waiting for more detail which will be dribbled out today.

whitewave Fri 08-Dec-17 07:56:08

Twitter discussion saying if the loons are (which is likely) very unhappy with the report, they may well challenge the leadership. It is clear that we are in a much weaker position from the result of the negotiation, and this will infuriate the loons beyond measure.

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