Attractive women must sometimes take the blame?

I’m sure you can’t help being ‘obtuse’ the important thing is to keep an open mind and not just accept the current theory floating around. You said in your post that ‘there is evidence that serial rapists rape for power’ - I’m asking for evidence to support that statement which you’ve obviously forgotten you posted.

My post is not muddled I’m saying rape is not all about power. What part of that don’t you get?

Just been listening to the BBC news about the increase in sexual assaults and rapes carried out by under 10s, that is primary school pupils. Increased from about 200 to over 400 in a couple of years. Little girls being raped by class mates. It’s almost unbelievable.

www.unicef.org/sowc96pk/sexviol.htm

This is interesting on rape and war

I don’t really understand what you are saying Friday. Maybe it’s me but I find your post a bit muddled. What trotted out by which so- called feminists? Which of them think they are always right and have the monopoly on promoting gender equality? Which women on this site? Evidence for what? One of the points I’ve been making is that wrt rape statistics we just don’t have them and especially historically. I really don’t get what exactly you are taking issue with.it would really help if you were more specific. Sorry if I’m being obtuse

Yeh, yeh. Heard all this trotted out by the so-called feminists, who seem to think they are always right and have the monopoly on promoting gender equality, whereas in fact those really fighting the fight are woman like those on this site who have pushed back frontiers, knocked on the glass ceiling and really made an impact. Not the likes of Germaine Greer or Sara Ahmed.

I like to pass these theories across a mental filter, rather that blindly accept them as fact. Theories come and go. Let’s see your ‘evidence’ then maryeliza54

Consensual lust?? we’ll never know will we because we can’t get the historical data but I wonder what role the availability of contraception might play in that?

Do you think there are more people having meaningless sex today? Recreational sex?

Is rape any more prevalent now than it ever was? Well we don’t know obviously but I think there’s a good chance it isn’t. What’s changed is what women and society find acceptable and what counts as rape - remember it’s only been in our lifetimes that raping your wife became a crime. I’m sure rape was seen as just being part of a woman’s lot - not just in marriage but generally in the past. Child prostitution and incest was endemic and accepted. There is much documentary evidence about child prostitution in Victorian times.

Yes, that's fair comment.

But raping is a very easy way to assert power over a woman - what is more powerful than a man using his penis to forcibly penetrate a woman, invade her body in the most intimate way possible. What an expression of power - the ultimate. If men just wanted the sex, then they could use prostitutes as happened for example in the First World War in France. Rape has another dimension altogether - a real conquering. In war it’s a way to send the message to the enemy you have defeated - we have invaded your country and now we are literally invading your women. I think there is evidence that serial rapists rape for power,they are often inadequate men unable to sustain or form adult equal relationships with women and so have to take them by force. If they just needed sexual release,they could masturbate - there is something else happening. Not all rapes fit the power theory but certainly I don’t think rape can be understood without putting power into the equation in many cases.

historically it was a womens place to attract men and so dress up. If they overdo it, perhaps too short skirts or too much make up maybe the men get the wrong idea. I'm not agreeing with Lansbury in any way but some people cannot communicate. It would be easy to simply ask the girl if shes up for it.
when I was young we just told the boys to push off if we didn't like their attentions.
If a man is a rapist or abuser he will abuse no matter what a girl looks like. Its nothing to do with dressing up.

I think that's true. People rape for a whole host of reasons.
I do think women putting themselves into dangerous situations, particularly when they've been drinking, is a real issue.

I don’t blindly accept this idea that rape is not about sex but about power that some are asserting.

If rape were only about power and not about sex, why does the rapist engage in a sexual act? Why not acquire power some other way?

I think the idea that rape is not about sex grew out of the political movement to end rape. To say that rape is not about sex makes the issue more palatable for policy makers.

It placates men who worry that feminists want to label all men rapists; “Relax, you’re not a rapist if you want sex, you’re only a rapist if you want power.”

That is, at least, what the power theory aims to do. I’m not sure whether it’s been successful. But no matter how much success it’s had bringing rape into public discourse, it needs to die, because it’s inhibiting any meaningful discussion about why rape is so prevalent in our society.

There’s such a range of issues on this thread that I find it difficult to do a generalised response. If we just take looking attractive, there is huge huge pressure on women to do just that. The media ( especially the tabloids) fat shame, praise celebs who get their pre-baby body back in what seems like a couple of weeks and tomorrow will devote thousands of column inches to MM - her hair and how much her clothes cost - all that will get more words than what the visit is actually about. In industries like film and TV being attractive and looking good is the most important thing for an actor. Generally it’s men with power and women wanting to succeed which is a toxic mix. In the more prosaic work place, no man can be excused for making a pass at a female colleague or propositioning her. Outside the work place, there is a whole other set of issues- individual responsibility,risky behaviour , alcohol. One problem is we don’t have the data to contextualise and understand rape. How many rapes happen in the circumstances lizzy describes? We just don’t know. Stranger rape? Again we don’t know. But rape is surely about power ( it’s a weapon of war and always has been) - what has it to do with looking attractive? As a pp said, we know that elderly women get raped in their own beds, there is rape in care homes - sometimes by other residents but definitely by men working there in some capacity. Again we don’t have the figures for this - a BBC programme a year or two ago found much collusion in the covering up of these type of rapes. It’s all just such a mess

"What do these girls think men are made of?"
That's the point - is it true, as I've been taught, and learned from experience, that men are 'wired up' differently from most of us women, especially when it comes to aggression and the sex drive? Together or separately?
Or are we both the same?

Did you read about the girl who 'met' a total stranger on Tindr, and having only seen a photo, invited him to her studio flat for a drink and to watch a film and expected him to sit with her on her bed because, apparently, there was no other seating and then was shocked that he thought there was more on offer? And the student who invited a fellow student to share her bed for the night and was shocked to find he thought there was more on offer? What do these girls think men are made of?

OK, probably undermining my own argument, but there's no comparison between mugging, and rape or sexual advances by a superior to an inferior. The latter is much more complex. For a woman anyway. Hopefully also for a man.
I've been mugged a few times, and experienced sexual aggression more than that.

Nothing excuses violence against another person but:

If a man asks me to meet him in his hotel bedroom, and I suggest an alternative venue that he's not happy with, I might get an inkling about his hopes/intentions? If I agree to meet in his bedroom and he opens his door and greets me wearing only his bathrobe (HW), I might think twice about stepping over the threshold?

I don't believe women shouldn't dress to make themselves attractive but:

If I demonstrate a total lack of self respect by going out in a short skirt and no underwear and getting totally rat-arsed and puke and fall down in the street, should I be shocked and surprised that young men (or any men, or other women) don't treat me with respect? (Watching the TV shows about the police and ambulance services on the streets in towns and cities at night, I'm amazed at the restraint and patience they display towards these young women!)

As I said, nothing excuses violence against another.

Sorry Primrose dgc stole iPad and ran away pressing keys and then posted

Brilliant Primrose. Oiuyytrrrd???????????????????????⛑??⛑????????????

Tracey Ullman explains it perfectly in my opinion.
youtu.be/51-hepLP8J4

It is every driver's right to go ahead when the light turns green. But it behoves him to check that others are also obeying the rule. The driver who has the right of way will be just as dead as the one who didn't.

It is every woman's right to walk drunk and half-naked through an inner-city neighbourhood at 3.00 a.m.

Want to finish that one off for yourself?

I agree with Friday, we all have a responsibility to keep ourselves safe in all situations, as men have a responsibility to respect women in all situations, and to understand NO means NO!

Blimey. Now Angela Lansbury is at it. I won't be able to watch anyone on television soon.
Women are not to blame for men's bad actions. Men are adults and know right from wrong

Of course we all have a responsibility to keep ourselves safe, whether it is taking care crossing a road at night while wearing dark clothing or not walking home, alone, through an isolated and unlit ginnel in the dark.

Yes, in the first instance the motorist who might hit us has no evil intent and in the second instance the attacker has, but in both cases a little thought just might have made the difference.

There are people who prefer very old women as sexual partners just as some people prefer dead bodies.............however the majority prefer younger people and the fashion industry caters for this preference.....cosmetics, perfumes, advertising works better with subliminal sexual signals in..........it is life.

Some people are better at controlling their urges than others............