Has the Conservative Party lost all sense of competence

Dear oh dear, is there nothing that stops their over inflated idea of their own competence!!

Just heard on the BBC this morning that Cameron is planning a come-back. Well, that's good news then!!! The political mess in this country is nothing to do with him and his poor judgement then, is it?

Eloethan - I accept your point about whether the polls can be trusted. This morning the DM on line shows a poll from the company that was closest to the outcome of the last election. Their poll shows Labour 8 points ahead.

I've never and never would vote for the tories but as several others have asked - how could anyone vote for this lot.

I forgot to address the Norwegian Investment Fund which you mentioned in your post primrose

This was set up with the oil revenue received from the North Sea during the 1980s. This was done to benefit the country as a whole and give an income to everyone and used for the population benefit.

We could have done exactly the same.

But we were in the middle of the ridiculous Thatcher experiment - remember that failed economic policy? So free market economics which would mean that wealth would trickle down. The result was that the vast income we r3coeved from our North Sea oil was totally wasted.

There was absolutely no reason why we could not have done what Norway did and benefit the country as a whole - just think it could be using to finance the NHS.

There is very good reason to adopt the social dr ocratic model

So in answering the OP

Oh dear oh dear- remember the no 10 speech when Maybot grabbed office? Her first and last priority was to address the inequality in the U.K. she correctly recognised that the Brexit vote was very largely a protest vote at the growing inequality in the U.K.

What an embarrassment.

Incompetence? I should say so.

primrose you asked about the vat rate in the Nordic countries.

You will of course be aware that vat rates vary from country to country as these rates are set by the national government.

So the standard rate in the Nordic countries is between 22-25% but then of course you need to look at other particular goods/services which will vary from country to country.

You will of course know that there is no zero rated products in these countries, but where vat is not charged it will be exempt from vat.

If there is anything else you wish to know please just ask.

Turning direct tax

Corporation tax is roughly in line with the OECD rates and much more competitive with the US comes in at approx 22-25%.

Income tax

The top marginal rates range from 39% in Norway to 60% in Denmark.
The lower income tax rates vary from 0% to 29%

I think that you will agree that this compares very well with the UK.

The difference is the social democratic policies.

We are hearing only this morning that inequality in the UK which is reaching shameful rates and nothing is being done.
Inequality in the Nordic countries are amongst the best in the world. I reiterate they have the highest standard of living in the world.

Corbyn is right to take their model for the U.K.

Iam64 I'm not sure that the polls can be relied upon to give us the full truth. In the recent election, the polls indicated that Labour would get an absolute thrashing because of Corbyn's upopularity, but in fact it made remarkable gains.

On the front of The I today "Davis threat to quit if deputy PM is fired over porn". If, as has been claimed, Damian Green was accessing porn whilst at work on a work computer, then it's my understanding that that is grounds for dismissal in most, if not all, jobs. One of the senior partners in the City law firm I worked for was found to have been doing the same and was immediately and unceromoniously booted out. Perhaps Davis sees it as a way of getting out of the Brexit mess whilst appearing to be leaving on a point of principle. If it is only mischief-making and rumour and cannot be supported by firm evidence, I would have thought it would be very unwise to get rid of Green.

Whatever a person's doubts might be about Labour, I cannot understand how anybody could vote Conservative at the moment. They have proved to be incapable of doing anything right and every indicator shows that any cuts in historical debt have been at the expense of many things vital to a modern nation but especially to our infrastructure, education/training and research and development - all vital components of a forward-looking and successful economy.

I wondered if that might be the explanation, but then, a shoo-in (shoe-in) is when someone, willingly, gets a position without any competition isn't it? Which would be completely the opposite to having to shoo a horse across the winning line (which, speaking from experience with horses, would be a difficult thing to do and, as you'd have to be behind it to 'shoo' it, dangerous if there were horses galloping down the track...)

Oh well; think I'll go to bed and sleep on it

I googled it because I didn't want anyone to send me to pedants' corner.
Yes, I always thought it was shoe-in

Well who knew? Apparently the learned articles on Google back a 'shoo-in' as it comes from race course language where they say the first example of the noun "shoo-in" is in a 1928 horse-racing magazine. Something to do with simply having to 'shoo' a horse across the line.

I would have had to look it up (and did) as I don't think either seems obviously right.

Who says it's a 'shoo-in', Jalima?

I've understood it to be a 'shoe-in' all my life.

Is it 'shoe' in not 'shoo' sorry.

I always thought it was shoe-in but I used it the other day and checked first (didn't want to sit in pedants' corner) and apparently it is 'shoo-in'.

Perhaps the NHS should introduce an annual payment and charge full price for prescriptions and equipment, like in Norway

And perhaps they shouldn't, Primrose.

Because the NHS was founded on the principle that the whole of society is responsible for its members and that they all contribute according to their means. A principle that all those nice ordinary UK taxpayers, who would cheerfully pay another 1p in the £1 in income tax if they could be sure that it was going to the NHS, seem perfectly happy to go along with.

I have no doubt that you're not one of them, though.

Yes Friday you're right - it's shoo-in.
On the subject of Norway & the general idea about how much better it is in the Scandinavian countries - we should remember that they are very different - with different populations, economies etc - and how they fund their public services - for example in Sweden everyone pays when they go to see a doctor, or go to hospital or have an x-ray.
On the subject of tax and the wealthy- let's not forget that the top 1% pay 29% of income tax collected - and the top 5% pay over half of income tax collected.
It was the Labour government who made the lowest paid workers liable for income tax and yet at the same time reduced the tax burden for the rich by introducing the lowest rate of capital gains tax - so that minimum wage earners were paying at 20% and people disposing of capital assets (i.e. the wealthy) were paying at 18%.

primrose have you paid full price for medicine? I have occasionally bought migraine tablets and steroid inhalers over the counter and was stunned by the cost - it just wouldn't be feasible for people to pay those sort of prices all the time, on an average salary. It really made me appreciate the NHS.

Perhaps the NHS should introduce an annual payment and charge full price for prescriptions and equipment, like in Norway? The extra funds would then be given directly to the NHS.

And yes Jalima too many people in the UK simply aren't prepared to pay more in tax.

And very many of the very wealthiest people in the UK aren't prepared to pay any tax at all if they can possibly help it. Though perfectly happy to use State provided services.

Yet, from opinion polls and surveys it seems that the 'ordinary' UK taxpayer (e.g those who are on PAYE and absolutely cannot avoid paying tax) would be very willing to pay a little extra to go towards running the NHS.

Friday, I think you will find the majority do not expect you to be a Professor of Norwegian Economics and just like the different views we get on here.

But you didn’t just ask that did you primrose? And while I will add that I’ve lived in this country since 1969 I have intention of edifying you further.

I too am a massive admirer of Shirley Williams and agree she is the best ever Prime Minister we never had.

But we are now- with hard Brexit and a disaster for the UK on our door step - neither the left nor the right seem to have any answers. Must find an innovative way forwards, and fast.

Another here who backed the SDP ( and sincerely thought that Shirley Williams would be PM!).
My loyalties are now with the SNP - not because independence is my no 1 priority but because they are attempting to run the country in line with what I do see as important.
Not perfect but protecting what needs protecting and even proposing an increase in income tax to fund that protection.

whitewave - no sneering intended.
Friday - I've obviously misinterpreted "Norwegian observer" as someone who'd know things like the tax rate or VAT rate.

Did I have that incorrect? Is it 'shoe' in not 'shoo' sorry.

Friday says that the LP had a "good showing" in the last election "considering that the Tories were thought to be a shoe-in" - I think LP had a good showing precisely because the Tories were thought to be a shoe-in - non LP voters assumed it would be safe to vote Labour as a protest (especially because of Brexit) because we were all told (even by Labour candidates) that Corbyn would not win.
Next time around voters will be more circumspect and the LP policies will be subject to more scrutiny.
Maybe the non-Labour vote among older voters is because we remember Militant Tendency and Derek Hatton and Liverpool being brought to bankruptcy and one of the most powerful political speeches ever - remember Neil Kinnock challenging them at the LP conference? " ... and a Labour council, .. A Labour council ..."
Like you GG2 I have no political home - no one I could vote for - all I require is compassion & competence- obviously & sadly too much to ask.

I find it interesting that much of Corbyn Labour's Manifesto, echoes policies that already are implemented by the Scottish Government or are in the pipeline. I am also constantly amazed that any discussion of UK politics seems to ignore the SNP MPs (still the 3rd largest party in the HOC and taking the lead in opposing Universal Credit implementation and championing the cause of the WASPI Women.

The SNP are a truly Social Democratic Party and should be natural allies of Labour/Libdems, but as in the Scottish Parliament, everything they propose is automatically opposed by all the other parties.