Labour supporters may be ignorant.

No, it doesn’t matter ( who needs to be housed) but I was pointing out that single Mothers with a child or children are now waiting for social housing in large numbers,which was not the case fifty or more years ago.
also the reason that all housing, both social and affordable to buy or rent is in short supply, is that ‘singletons’ want to be housed, either unmarried or divorced, and that immigration ( both from the EU and outside of it) has pushed up the population.
Thousands of houses have been built in the past five years, where I live, which is where there are many jobs, but every large village in the land will need houses each ,the way the population is growing.

lemongrove sheer numbers of single parent families waiting for social housing now cannot be compared to after the war years
Does it really matter who needs to be housed? If the will is there to do it it can be done. We are now a richer more prosperous country and we should be ashamed that anyone is being housed for over year in inadequate emergency accommodation.

I would just like to add that I live in a multicultural area and in my experience of hospitals over the last few years, I can honestly say that I have not been aware of any particular increase in the number of immigrants on the half a dozen or so kinds of wards I have experienced (on my own account or with my FiL). However, probably the majority of the excellent doctors were not born in the UK and neither were most of the agency nurses. I doubt many were born in the EU either.

My FiL wears hearing aids in both ears and he often had a problem understanding the accents of agency nurses until he 'tuned' into the speaker, but then he wouldn't see them again and had to start over the following day. This is an aspect of his stay that could have been avoided if there there was not such a dependency on agency staff.

There seems to be a contradiction going on here. Day6 is claiming that services are overstretched because of immigration. In which case, why are hospitals being closed left right and centre?

This page of google results tells the story.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=hospital+closures+since+2010&oq=Hospital+closures&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.8185j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It looks more like tory austerity policy causing the problem than immigration.

Our local walk in centre is now run by Virgin on behalf of the NHS. You'd never know because it's done in the same place as when it was run by the NHS. However, now there's a list of what can be treated which wasn't there before. Most, but not all who arrive at the walk in centre can't get an appointment with their GP. Gone are the days there where you could be seen by a doctor at the walk in centre and referred to A&E if necessary. Now you won't be seen at the walk in centre at all if your problem is not on that list. So you go to A&E because there's nowhere else you can see a doctor.

Virgin now runs over 400 NHS contracts and has just been awarded a Children's Services contract worth over £100 million. Yes, the NHS is being privatised. Not, wholesale like British Gas, water and electricity. Slowly bit by bit by offering contracts to run on behalf of the NHS.

Earlier this year my 82 year old FiL was sent to A&E by his GP. He was seen within 6 hours. Unfortunately, The problem persisted and he ended up back at A&E the next day at about 5.00 pm. My DH took him and he was seen by a doctor at about 10.00 pm, who decided he should be admitted. He was moved out of the cubicle and waited in the corridor until about 8.00 am the next morning. My husband sat on the floor all night because there was no chair available. My FiL is insulin dependent and my DH had to keep flagging the nurses who were run off their feet to remind them of my FiL's diabetic needs (you're told not to take your own medication). It was a very bad experience. He was in hospital for almost a month. He'd been admitted to hospital through A&E via his GP 18 months before and although that wasn't a good experience, it was nothing like this year.

I was in the same hospital for 3 weeks in 2015 and spent 5 exhausting days and nights in an A&E ward before I went to the neurology ward. I saw 5 different changes in the bed opposite mine in one night - and one of them was the same person readmitted! Those 5 days were dreadful in comparison to the rest of my stay.

The amount of agency staff appeared greater every year and there was little if no continuity of the agency staff. I can only conclude that things ARE getting worse.

Morgana it may be anecdotal, but that's just one of the ways hospitals try to hit targets because they don't have the staff and other resources like beds, etc.

Apart from a massive amount of immigration ( everybody has to live somewhere) the sheer numbers of single parent families waiting for social housing now cannot be compared to after the war years.

lemongrove nothing to do with the number of people. Post war there was a huge housing shortage it was met by people with the will to change things In the decade after 1945, 1.5 million homes had been completed and some of the demand for housing had been alleviated. The percentage of the people renting from local authorities had risen to over a quarter of the population, from 10% in 1938 to 26% in 1961.

You have information that the rest of us don’t ww ? Do tell.

Don’t worry immigration will be curbed after Brexit, but not in the way you assume

There are more people living in temporary accommodation such as B&B’s because there are more people living here, full stop!
A lot of these people are immigrants from many countries, often earning low wages.The population of the UK has exploded in recent years. Also, quite a few will be single parents with children.This is why we can’t compare things with twenty years ago, since more are living here, it follows that more housing is needed.That’s why immigration has to be curbed, not stopped altogether, but curbed,

trisher I think there's a huge difference between careless driving and injuries caused by drinking to excess. Drivers are insured.
I would have no problem with the NHS claiming their costs from the insurance companies for care provided due to careless driving, providing it was proven not to be an 'accident' - for example, if someone was using a mobile phone at the wheel.

Of course they aren't Morgana they are very real examples of how safe the NHS is in Tory Hands!

Sorry to post anecdotal evidence but I know several people who have had N.H.S. treatment in private hospitals, our local A. & E. Is bring run by a private company, my glaucoma checks are done in a privately run clinic within the N.H.S. eye hospital. Tell me these aren't a creeping privatisation.

Day6 I take back what I said about rabid left wingers.

My first quote wasn't from an article. It's from a publication which was for sale on Amazon and it was republished in 2009. It is well known that Jeremy Hunt co-authored it, along with Douglas Carswell, Michael Gove and David Gauge (DWP Minister) amongst others.

It's now available as a free download on this blog here

I don't know why you don't know about ACOs, but it could be because of the amount of coverage Brexit is getting, but it's much more likely to be because it is being introduced as part of the NHS Five Year Forward View initiative. The problem with this initiative is that it is happening without full parliamentary scrutiny. Change is happening piecemeal without the need for Parliament voting on the changes.

You can read more about this here

Jeremy Hunt has visited the US several times as Health Secretary to see the US health care system works and this greatly concerns me.

Day6 If you are really as ignorant as you pretend about the Tories' plans for the NHS then I really am sorry for you. You might read this
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-health-department-nhs-legal-action-americanise-privatisation-customers-id-pay-a8033986.html

Primrose65 I don't drive, should I then expect people who do and who are involved in an accident caused by their careless driving to pay for their own treatment?

I have no problem with the NHS having more money, but I do have a problem with that coming from general taxation.

Why not charge people the cost of their service if they need treatment because they are drunk? That's an immediate £3.5 billion straight into the NHS or a drop in demand for A&E.

I'm very happy to pay for illness, less happy to pay for people whose reckless behaviour or 'lifestyle choices' become my financial burden.

Wilma

a) Article written in 2005.

b) "Plans have been tabled to convert the NHS into a public/private enterprise, which critics say is based upon the US private health insurance-based system".

How strange so few of us know about these 'plans'? How strange it hasn't been widely reported? I would have thought we'd have national uproar by now if there had been a plan. People of all political persuasions would be outraged and rightly so. It's not a vote-winning policy either, is it? Biased reporting methinks which you choose to believe.

c) You can call posters rabid left wingers until the cows come home.

I didn't. Show me where I did?

You however choose to call me 'rabid'. Nice. See what I mean about aggression?

To be fair Wilma, it was Trisher who brought the term rabid left winger into the discussion, she said it of herself

PS Day6 please note I do not use anecdotes to make my point, just verified facts.

Day6

2.8% of NHS spending went to private providers in 2006/07, rising to 4.4% in Labour’s last full year in government and 4.9% in the first year of the Coalition. In 2015/2016 it was 10.7%.

Source fullfacts.org following a David Davis appearance on Question Time in May 2017. He incorrectly claimed the proportion of the NHS budget spent on private providers rose much more quickly under the last Labour government than it has since then.

Tell me again that the NHS is in a safe pair of hands. You can call posters rabid left wingers until the cows come home, but I hope when you look in the mirror you can see the rabid right winger looking back at you.

Day6

From page 78 of Direct Democracy: An Agenda for a New Model Party published in 2005 and co-authored by Jeremy Hunt

Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain, so extending to all the choices currently available only to the minority who opt for private provision.

From article in The Independent 3rd November 2017 about the proposals to restructure the NHS by introducing Accountable Care Organisations (ACOs)

Legal action is being taken against Jeremy Hunt and the Department of Health over their proposals to restructure the NHS, The Independent can reveal. Plans have been tabled to convert the NHS into a public/private enterprise, which critics say is based upon the US private health insurance-based system. Senior health professionals and campaigners have now come together to take legal action and demand a judicial review, to ensure full parliamentary scrutiny of the proposals.

I'm sure nursing courses may have been oversubscribed in the past Day6- more attractive to many because of the bursary given- but don't worry this government has solved that. As for EU nurses read what the King's Fund says www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-nhs-nurses-numbers-drop-first-time-eu-staff-a7995366.html

You might also wonder why this government is happy to see nurse numbers reduced and patient safety compromised but of course it wouldn't be anything to do with them undermining the NHS would it? Just left wing propaganda isn't it!!!! Could this also possibly be why they put so much pressure on them they choose to work for agencies???- of course not

trisher "I would imagine more recent reports might find that a lack of nurses from the EU will be severely detrimental to the NHS."

Well, you'll be pleased to know that for years it has been exceedingly difficult to get on University Nurse Training courses. They are always over subscribed.

What we must do is ensure that those nurses we train do actually give their expertise to the NHS instead of becoming agency nurses or going into the private sector which is more lucrative.

That is a loophole that needs closing according to my neighbour, a nursing sister in the NHS.

"Day6 I am pleased you have had excellent health care from the NHS. I wonder how many of the professional staff who treated you were in fact immigrants? "

I am not sure what that has to do with the discussion given I am from immigrant stock too. I am in favour of people with skills working in the uk no matter where they come from.

However, let's not pretend the wave of unprecedented immigration under Labour has somehow saved the country. That is a fallacy, another the left would have us believe is true.

Do you believe we should have open borders and no control over who enters the UK, or the numbers of people coming to live in the UK?

Do you think we could cope given you like to tell us over and over again people are homeless, live on the streets, use food banks, can't get medical treatment etc, etc, etc, etc.

I have worked in multicultural inner cities all my life btw, and worked alongside wonderful people from all over the world, before you start castigating all those who believe we need a controlled immigration policy.