Gransnet forums

News & politics

That’s not a brexiter that’s a rebel who believes in democracy

(203 Posts)
whitewave Thu 14-Dec-17 15:27:26

New thread.

durhamjen Tue 19-Dec-17 21:46:12

Nearly 8% vacancy rate isn't high enough for you, primrose?
And it would be higher if half of the staff didn't work overtime for free.

Acute nursing vacancies vary from 15.7% in South London to 8% in North East. Those figures were March 2016. They will be worse now Brexit is starting to be felt.

For those who aren't quite as complacent about the NHS, read this and then find out if your MP has signed the EDM on the link at the bottom of the article. If not, ask him/her to do so.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/ellen-lees/brexit-isnt-only-thing-parliament-needs-to-demand-vote-on-right-now-nhs-is-too

jura2 Tue 19-Dec-17 21:33:21

problem is that currently, there are few coming from the EU and rest of the world to fill those vacancies (and perhaps too - and I have no proof of this- that quality and language criteria are likely to be dropped to make up for this.

Primrose65 Tue 19-Dec-17 21:17:56

Have you read the Q&A at the bottom of the article?
It's not quite as sensationalist as the title.
Is this a large number compared to historical vacancies in the NHS as a percentage of staff employed? I'd be surprised if an organization employing over 1.3 million people didn't have what seems to be a large number of vacancies.

jura2 Tue 19-Dec-17 21:09:50

Awful - probably why they want to get rid of the workers' directives then sad

and I will not be able to blame them if and when they vote with their feet ...

durhamjen Tue 19-Dec-17 20:48:14

inews.co.uk/news/uk/health-service-100000-vacancies-half-nhs-staff-working-overtime-free/

I hope people do wake up to the truth before this gets any worse, varian.

Primrose65 Tue 19-Dec-17 19:38:11

So both wrong it would seem

I think you're muddled again. What did I say that was wrong?

whitewave Tue 19-Dec-17 19:28:43

Tom Watson has said that Farage is due two EU pensions shock

whitewave Tue 19-Dec-17 19:22:31

Right I’ve got it.

It was a tweet put out by the MI6 chief, and re-tweeted by FGW.

So both wrong it would seem.

Primrose65 Tue 19-Dec-17 19:04:00

Perhaps this makes it easier for you, you seem to be struggling with Twitter.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/19/brexit-loss-influence-1970s-ex-mi6-chief-sir-john-sawers

I can assure you FGW has never been the chief of MI6. He's in his early 30's, which is a bit young for anyone, however competent, to be a retired MI6 chief.

whitewave Tue 19-Dec-17 18:48:03

I have confused

Primrose65 Tue 19-Dec-17 18:47:10

ww You have confused Francis Grove-White, deputy director of Open Britain with Sir John Sawers, ex-MI6 chief who spoke to the foreign affairs select committee about Brexit. You can check their twitter feeds to verify them grin

I'll let you all get back to counting up all the UK law vs EU law.

varian Tue 19-Dec-17 18:46:55

The only conversations I have had over the past eighteen months with someone who admitted who voting for brexit involved them expressing a fear of immigration. Yet the realaisation of the truth has just begun to sink in. If it were not from the benefits of EU immigration, the UK , especially the NHS, would be in a desperate position. People are beginning to wake up to the truth and reject the lies of thew right wing gutter press. Most British people want to remain in the EU.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-latest-poll-remain-ten-points-leave-bmg-a8114406.html

MamaCaz Tue 19-Dec-17 18:38:25

Given that uncontrolled immigration seems to be one of the most frequently cited justifications of voting brexit, I am going to have to ask: how can it be said that EU law has minimal or no effect on UK border policy? We are all given to understand that we have little or no control over the movement of EU nationals over our borders. Is it simply that immigrants from the EU only account for a small percentage of those crossing our borders, or am I overlooking something else? I am not trying to wind anyone up - this is a geniune question!

durhamjen Tue 19-Dec-17 18:24:57

The UK formed most of EU law, not the other way round.
We had the biggest say in it, and what we didn't like we opted out of.
Now there are all these people who don't like the laws we made, but they wouldn't like any laws.
They want small state government, and paying less in tax.
It's notable that no people who have money in tax havens have said they want to stay in the EU, as far as I know.

whitewave Tue 19-Dec-17 18:13:16

How can uk domestic law possibly be such a small % compared to eu shared law. U.K. law has been developed over centuries!!

durhamjen Tue 19-Dec-17 18:06:23

Fullfact says it's impossible to quantify; 13% is too low and 65% is too high!
Take your pick.

whitewave Tue 19-Dec-17 17:56:20

If you think logically it is obvious that eu law has no impact on domestic law and the only impact is where Brussels is keen to ensure a level playing field throughout the EU for business . The level playing field was ensured with great enthusiasm by the U.K. gieven our constant support of free trade and a liberal economy.

durhamjen Tue 19-Dec-17 17:52:24

www.open-britain.co.uk/bradshaw_so_called_institute_for_free_trade_has_very_serious_questions_to_answer

MaizieD Tue 19-Dec-17 17:51:11

I think that Full Fact is very vague.

I'll remind people again of the areas where the Eu has minimal influence or no influence at all on UK laws

Health policy. Education. Fiscal policy. Public expenditure. Monetary policy. Income tax. Corporation tax. Capital gains tax. Inheritance tax. Border control and security. Non-EU immigration. Pensions. Welfare. Foreign policy decisions. Defence. Military Intelligence. Development cooperation and humanitarian aid. All local government. National policing. Crime. Media and press regulation. Family law. Property law and succession of estates.

whitewave Tue 19-Dec-17 17:51:07

As someone else suggested, aggregate this figure across industry and you get some idea of the devastating cost

durhamjen Tue 19-Dec-17 17:50:48

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/18/brexit-thinktank-scrambles-to-remove-institute-from-its-name

whitewave Tue 19-Dec-17 17:48:43

Dr Paul Williams of GSK and my daughter’s boss tweeted

The cost of Brexit has so far been absolutely staggering.
GSK has spent £70 million. Money that could have been spent on research.”

whitewave Tue 19-Dec-17 17:46:33

primrose

FGW was the MI6 chief. You seem to be muddled

durhamjen Tue 19-Dec-17 17:40:09

The government doesn't believe in democracy.

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/adam-ramsay-mary-fitzgerald/why-is-northern-ireland-office-protecting-dups-dirty-little

Primrose65 Tue 19-Dec-17 17:36:42

Wasn't Grove-White the deputy director of Open Britain, who have just been fined by the Electoral Commission? I know he worked at the Labour Party, I think you've confused him with someone else who worked at MI6.