More Brexit lunacy

"In general, the law of the European Union is valid in all of the twenty-eight European Union member states. However, occasionally member states negotiate certain opt-outs from legislation or treaties of the European Union, meaning they do not have to participate in certain policy areas. Currently, four states have such opt-outs: United Kingdom (four opt-outs), Denmark (three opt-outs), Ireland (two opt-outs) and Poland (one opt-out)."

durhamjen

"Macron has said we can have a bespoke deal providing that in return we stick to single market rules.
Isn't that what we have at the moment?"

YEP

It's called being a Member of the European Union.

durhamjen

" Yes, well, POGS, you appear to have been stamping your feet and squealing about not having an answer to the same question for ages. "

YEP

As you say I have been asking the same question for ages, I have been reading the same posters repeat the same thing over and over again and when challenged fail to give an answer to the known facts .

Twas ever thus !

Macron has said we can have a bespoke deal providing that in return we stick to single market rules.
Isn't that what we have at the moment?

Tegan 2.

So what if the PM was not a person you have no respect for or comes from a Party you equally show distain for, what would you have had our Prime Minister do?

It may not have been Theresa May or the Conservative Party in government at this moment in time.

I suspect you and others will believe that our Prime Minister should agnore the Referendum result completely but do you honestly believe everybody would agree with that view?

I voted Remain but I also accept The Prime Minister , whoever he/she may be and from whatever Party he/she may be from , should do as the electorate majority wants it to do when a democratic vote has taken place.

The alternative style of governance has another name does it not.

I heard one of the paper reviewers call the Telegraph the Brexitgraph the other night.

Here's the link to your article whitewave.Voters should be able to change their minds on referendums, says Speaker

Yes, well, POGS, you appear to have been stamping your feet and squealing about not having an answer to the same question for ages.

durhamjen

"You appear not to have noticed it's the Brexiteers who want to cherrypick, POGS."

If they have they are equally as disingenuous as those of you who say we can stay in the Single Market whilst both main Parties have stated 'Free Movement of People Will End'

I prefer to rely on the facts and the facts are we cannot stay in the Single Market and not abide by the 4 Freedoms.

No matter how much people like to to stamp their feet and squeel to the contrary, no matter how long the argument goes on and on, and boy hasn't it just, ' the facts ' are the only truth in the matter.

Question, I'm confused.

To those who repeatedly say the Referendum was only 'advisory' but insist on a 2nd Referendum what do you think that will achieve?

Surely the points raised in objection to the first Referendum will apply equally to the 2nd Referendum.

In other words we can keep going round and in circles.

So how do you see a way of 'democratically' coming up with a solution to the question of EU Membership . Is your only answer the Referendum was 'Advisory' , if so why do you think another will work.?

May will go down in history as the worst PM this country has ever had. However, if she, as a remainer who still seems to imply she is still a remainer, resigned and said she wouldn't be responsible for leading this country to one of the most self destructive things it has ever done, she would go up so highly in my estimation. And, would go down in history as the lemming who stopped all the other lemmings from jumping off the cliff.

If brexit actually happened before the brexiteers realised it was a terrible mistake, it would not be a simple matter of applying to rejoin the EU.

We would never get back the advantageous terms we now enjoy - outside the Euro and Schengen and in receipt of a big rebate.

The favourable position we are in makes it all the more incomprehensible to the rest of the world why we should ever want to leave.

You appear not to have noticed it's the Brexiteers who want to cherrypick, POGS.

www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2018-01-18/may-once-again-refuses-to-say-how-she-would-vote-on-brexit-now

Not what this article says, whitewave.

So Macron has simply reaffirmed the EU position of 'No Cherry Picking' over the Single Market Membership and the requirement of abiding by the EU Treaties, the 4 Freedoms/Pillars.

So I ask ' again ' :

How can we stay in the Single Market and at the same time say 'The Free Movement of People' will end' as both the Labour Party and the Conservative Party have said that is their position.

We either agree to abide by the 4 Freedoms/Pillars to be umembers of the EU/EEA/EFTA or we Leave. To agree to abide by the 4 Freedoms/Pillars means we have not Left the European Union we have acceded to Remain a member and ignored the result of the EU Referendum.

I have not a clue which way Labour are facing other than seeing it face both ways. The Labour Manifesto says 'The free Movement of People will end', Starmer, Corbyn et al have all said this .

Has Labour now eventually stated it has done a UTurn/changed it's mind? If the answer is 'Yes' Labour should come clean with the voter and state it is fully behind 'the free movement of people' , the same goes for the Conservative Party. If the answer is 'No' it should stop this continual , disingenuous rhetoric that only fools a few voters that we can 'Have Our Cake and Eat It/ Cherry Pick'. No we cannot!

can't be frozen in time, nor in lies. Most people have realised the promises were lies, and won't be fooled again.

I can’t quite understand the Torygraph report that repeated Mays assertion to Macron that next time she would vote “Remain”? Didn’t she vote remain last time?

Interesting article from John Bercow in the guardian today.

Bercow argues that democracy s under threat unless those who voted to remain are encouraged to continue to argue to stay in the EU.

He seems to be defending the right to a second referendum.

He says that democracy is a dynamic concept, but at present there is a threat to representative democracy which should concern us all.
People on the losing side are not obliged to accept that their views are lost for ever. They are perfectly entitled to continue to argue for it.

He goes on to make clear that political issues are rarely decided on one vote.

One vote on one day in one year by a small majority, cannot bind the U.K. for ever. The public is entitled to change its mind on such a serious. Issue as Brexit.

The will of the people can never be frozen in time.

There are some strange messages coming from the Brexit camp at the moment and one of the weirdest is the idea that “ we can always rejoin in the future if we want to”

What on earth is that all about?

theconversation.com/boris-johnsons-english-channel-bridge-an-engineering-experts-view-90409

All that your post tells me Day6 is that the fear of an EU superstate is misplaced because, as I have said before, the individual nations which comprise the EU are no more willing to cede their sovereignty than the UK is. As they, collectively, through the Council of Ministers and the EU parliament, have the power to stop any moves towards a 'superstate' it is most unlikely to happen.

However, they're not daft enough to break with the largest trading bloc in the world, because the bloc works to their economic advantage. You can't, surely, have missed the fact that growth in every EU nation, even Greece, is now ahead of UK growth?

That's still the right-wing populist saying that, Day6, or didn't you realise you were quoting him.
That's like Farage telling us what everybody is saying in this country, and some Ukip wallies believe him.

"you are quoting the right-wing populist of Denmark. What else would you expect them to say?"

You missed this bit....

“We have also seen all the major parties in Denmark rejecting this future of a United States of Europe, from my own party to the Social Democrats and the liberal party."

You seem unable to grasp that not everyone is as left wing in outlook as you and that across all the parties in Denmark there is concern as to where the EU is planning to take its member states.

Right wing, middle ground, left wing - there is concern over Europe that the EU is a power grabbing institution, lacking in democracy and surrounded by secrecy. It's labyrinthine construction is of concern as is it's power. Federalism is a huge concern and so it should be.

The seeds of discontent have been sown all over Europe. I shall watch with interest as other member states express concern. Ignore it if you like, keep the blinkers on if it's all too 'right wing' for your consumption.

MawBroon

(Seriously, I really wish I could escape)

Not sure what to say about this!

"Regardless of whether the U.K. can reach a two-year transition arrangement, EU regulators have made it clear they expect banks to establish full-scale, standalone operations inside the trading bloc staffed by significant numbers of both front- and back-office staff as well as senior employees, rather than so-called brass-plate offices with people commuting from London.

Frankfurt isn’t the only beneficiary of Brexit. Citigroup will also relocate roles to offices in Madrid, Milan, Paris, Dublin and Luxembourg, the person said. Citigroup already operates in 21 EU states, and has more than half of its European employees based outside of the U.K.

“2018 feels good, the growth in Europe is there, inflation is still low and the monetary policy is still very accommodative,” Turek said."

Sounds like we've lost Citigroup anyway. Direct result of Brexit.