More Brexit lunacy

mostlyharmless Wed 10-Jan-18 12:10:56

Debbie Abrahams (Shadow work and pensions) on Daily Politics said that the shadow cabinet discussed their Brexit position yesterday.

"No to the single market but yes to "a" customs union. Not necessarily "the" customs union."
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So far Labour have been in out shaking it all about as to whether Labour wants to stay in the Single Market , one minute they are out, the next they are in!

Do you think the Labour supporters who are vociferous about wanting the UK to remain in the Single Market / Customs Union as it stands , let alone in the EU, should question why they believe Labour are the party to give them what they want if as Abraham's said the Shadow Cabinet have said :-

"No to the single market but yes to "a" customs union. Not necessarily "the" customs union."

durhamjen Tue 09-Jan-18 15:24:45

"Watching Barry Gardiner on parliament TV, who is explaining Labour Brexit policy very well."
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So you now understand Labours position on the Customs Union . I too found it a very interesting debate.

Gardiner said this:-

"To answer his specific question, once the UK leaves the European Union, it cannot remain in the EU customs union, because by definition when a state leaves the European Union all EU rules cease to apply to it, as set out in article 50. The customs union is an institution of the European Union; it has its legal basis in the European treaties and its functioning is set out in EU regulations."

"As we will no longer be a signatory to the European treaties and no longer come under their territorial scope, we cannot formally be a member of the EU’s customs union. As the EU’s treaties currently stand, only EU member states, and territories attached to those states, are actually members of the customs union. However, it is possible for the UK to enter into a customs union with the EU after Brexit, whereby we choose to have a joined external tariff and no tariffs on trade between the EU and the UK. That would, in effect, mirror the current arrangements."

Liam Fox:-

"Just for clarity, is the hon. Gentleman telling us that it is now the policy of the official Opposition to enter into a customs union?"

Gardiner:-
"No, I am not telling the House that at all."

After many shouted attempts from Labour MP Angela Smith for Gardiner to give way she asked him this:-

" I thank my hon. Friend. His earlier comments about the UK being unable to remain a member of the customs union after leaving the European Union are surely incorrect. Surely it would be possible for the UK to negotiate fresh membership of the customs union, in the same way that Turkey has done. Equally, surely it would be possible to negotiate membership of the single market on departure, in the same way that Norway and Iceland have done. It is entirely possible for the UK to renegotiate membership of both."

Gardiner :-

"I am very happy to respond to my hon. Friend, and I understand the distinctions she is making, but she will also understand what I have already set out about the force of the treaties, which is simply a matter of law. We will not be bound by the treaties and therefore we would not be able to continue as a member of the EU, and therefore as a member of the EU customs union, although, as I have pointed out, we could then come back and form a customs union with the European Union.

My hon. Friend asked specifically about Turkey’s relationship with the European Union. Turkey has a customs union agreement with the EU customs union, but it is not a member of the EU customs union—she should be aware of that—and there is therefore an asymmetry in the way in which its trade relations are conducted. The EU conducts the deals and agreements with third-party countries on behalf of Turkey that set its tariffs and quotas. Indeed, that has caused Turkey great concern, because while the Mexico-EU agreement means that Mexico can import cars into Turkey tariff-free, there is no reciprocal liberalisation of Mexico’s markets for Turkey’s textiles, and Turkey is extremely aggrieved about that.

Were we to have the same arrangement, we could be in a position in which the European Union concluded an agreement with the United States—for example, perhaps along the lines of the transatlantic trade and investment partnership, which many Members would have concerns about—to the detriment of this country but the advantage of the European Union, which we would have no control over, and without liberalising US markets to British exports. That would be an extremely bad deal indeed. I trust that fully answers my hon. Friend’s question."

Hmm, has Barry Gardiner Labour's Shadow Secretary of State for International Trade and Shadow Minister for International Climate Change / Labour's Brexit Team Negotiator 'explained Labour's Brexit policy very well' for everybody I wonder.

...it's never ending...

tegan you are always busy clearing out!!

I guess we made sure we found a use for it as it was a by product of the brewing industry [just as the Americans found a use for that industrial cleaner and turned it into Coca Cola]. Hmm; we have some rather evil tasting salty stuff here that some people might like if we add a bit of yeast to it [then again, some people might not....]. [must point out that a lot of this might be inaccurate as I'm dipping in and out of Wikipedia whilst cleaning out the utility room.....]

Ah! But did the German take the idea and develop it - or did it take the British to do that?

Never!
I knew Marmite is from the name of the French pot (I thought it was a cooking pot).

Marmite was invented by a German and the jar itself is meant to be a glass version of the original container which was a French earthenware jar....#saysitallreally

Anyone see the idiots extreme hard Brexiters all, with the hamper in Brussels?

Francis Grove White tweeted

“Self important charlatans, marching around Brussels with hampers of quintetessentially British goods, many of which are produced by companies who have stated that they are deeply worried by the impact of Brexit, does nothing to further the national interest”

I thought this was the Brexit thread?
So it is! It has meandered a bit, hasn't it.

What about domestic animals such as cats and dogs allowed now to travel freely as long as they have a 'pet passport'? Lots of people take their animals on holiday - it may be a minor consideration to some but very important to others.

A reminder of a few truths from Nick Clegg:

inews.co.uk/opinion/nick-clegg-corbynite-left-say-record-government-didnt-deserve-knighthood-theyre-wrong/

Re racehorses; most of the classic winners these days are trained in Southern Ireland and they are travelling backwards and forwards to this country on a regular basis.

Guardian has published an article outlining what Brexit will mean for particular industries and some products as example of issues.

Medicines

Over 2600 different drugs are made in the U.K. The6 all have to be signed off by the Medicines Agency (we’ve just lost its presence)
If there is no deal concerning the Agency and that it will continue to li ence these drugs, then there will be a fracture.

This means that the drugs entering and leaving the U.K. will be subject to further testing on entering both the EU and the UK. The supply will slow down. The pharma industry are making contingency plans. We know that SKG has allotted £70 million.

Seafarers

Will no longer be able to work on vessels with the EU flag.

Haulage

Drivers will no longer be able to drive in Europe unless they hold a European certificate of competence. U.K. haulage companies will need a base on mainland Europe

Aviation

Carriers will have to have their HQs on mainland Europe in order to fly across Europe. Carriers must be majority owned or controlled by a country in the EU.
IAG - which owns both BA and Iberian will have to disinvest British shareholders or Iberia will not be able to fly within the EU.
U.K. carriers will fall out of third country agreements and but renegotiate.

Agriculture, food and drink.

Pure bred British pigs will have to be registered in every European country in order to be recognised.
Racing horses -all horses will be treated as a third nation horse meaning that they will need a passport and vetenary certification. Mineral water exporters will need approval of all eu countries .

I thought this was the Brexit thread?

Am I allowed to post something that I posted on another thread?
I'l re-phrase it, just in case
Not agreeing with Corbyn and McDonnell and being suspicious of Momentum does not mean other posters being positive about the Tories - not everything is in shades of black or white or far to the left/far to the right.

The general view, on GN at least, seems to be 'If you're not for us (Corbyn et al) you must be against us and be right wing'.
I can't compare with other forums, as I don't do twitter and other sites.

oh yes, of course - it is time they had the guts to say NO, not in my name, loudly and move to Lib Dems or Greens.

Mind you, I know many Tories who are totally desillusioned and disgusted even - but they just could not do it - tragically. And same in Labour ... this goes in families for generations - and nothing will move them- not even this debâcle.

and some disillusioned centrist Tories?

TOGETHER - Labour, Greens and Lib Dems - could reverse it all and create a real and well needed revolution in British Politics - seriously. If they unite- there is nothing the Cons can do.

Or as they were told in those days - 'get on your bike' - or ferry, or whatever...

So now, DD and Mrs May are back in Germany, with begging bowl - saying 'oh but leaving the SM is going to damage our economy and financial services' ?!? WHAT ?!?

Slightly at a tangent- do you remember this - men leaving their families, girlfriend, wives, children - to go and 'steal' jobs abroad, undercut locals on the 'black' - to send it all back home- or on booze and women?

youtu.be/3tklaMNH7IA

Debbie Abrahams (Shadow work and pensions) on Daily Politics said that the shadow cabinet discussed their Brexit position yesterday.
No to the single market but yes to "a" customs union. Not necessarily "the" customs union.
Quite impressed by Debbie Abraham. She talked clearly, diplomatically, stood up to Andrew Neil well and made Andrea Leadsom look insignificant and ineffective.

tegan all liberals, whether or not they regard themselves as "snowflakes", should reject both the current Labour and Tory parties and support the LibDems.

I also feel there’s no one for me to vote for. If there was a GE tomorrow I would vote Labour , but only on the basis they can’t do a lot worse than the current bunch of incompetents, plus I am in a marginal constituency and need to keep tories out. I would probably vote green otherwise.

I just keep contacting various Labour people and telling them my vote is not a 'given' and also contacting everyone who seems to support my viewpoint, whichever party they belong to....

and me Tegan