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(564 Posts)
Iam64 Wed 03-Jan-18 19:19:36

The situation we're in this week with the NHS, cancelled operations, frail and ill patients sitting in queues of ambulances outside A and E, etc etc.
The health secretary and PM are insisting they planned well for these pressures. Every doctor/nurse Ive heard interviewed is saying the situation is desperate and that the issue is lack of resources.
Local Authorities funds have been devastated so patients who could be discharged home if social care was available remain in hospital. People stay on trollies in A and E rather than being discharged because there isn't a Consultant available to confirm they ca go home.
Does anyone have a sensible suggestion about how this situation can be improved. I don't see how it can improve without more money, we need to train and support our medical staff.

durhamjen Fri 12-Jan-18 00:14:50

I think they want to be out of government because they can't see how to get out of the mess they have put themselves in.

Morgana Fri 12-Jan-18 00:09:19

Since the Government seems convinced with its own lies, I cannot see how anything is going to change in the short term. This is I find the scariest aspect. Do they think they won't be blamed? Do they think it will not affect people's votes in the future? Do they not want to be in power in the future? Are they just totally incompetent? Or are they trying to reduce the population?

durhamjen Thu 11-Jan-18 23:59:55

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/11/nhs-patients-dying-in-hospital-corridors-doctors-tell-theresa-may

durhamjen Thu 11-Jan-18 23:57:26

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/11/conservatives-theresa-may-nick-boles-fund-nhs-raising-taxes-national-insurance

Jalima1108 Thu 11-Jan-18 23:54:53

id you not think that it was impossible?
Yes I did actually
So pleased that you could put me right.

durhamjen Thu 11-Jan-18 23:09:28

This says not.

"Between 2011/12 and 2016/17, A&E attendances grew on average by 1.7 per cent each year, and increased by 1.9 million in total (or 8.8 per cent). This is the equivalent of an extra 5,100 more A&E attendances each day. "
That's from 2011-2016.

7x is not possible.

durhamjen Thu 11-Jan-18 23:06:17

"The number of people going to A&E has risen substantially over time. In 2016/17 there were 23.4 million attendances at A&E departments – the equivalent of 63,000 attendances each day on average. "

Kings Fund.
Are you saying that in 2015/16 there were only 9,000 attendances a day?

durhamjen Thu 11-Jan-18 23:01:57

Did you not think that it was impossible?

Jalima1108 Thu 11-Jan-18 21:06:50

Where did you get your 7x increase over last year, jalima?
ITV News at Six

durhamjen Thu 11-Jan-18 21:00:02

If I'd had to wait four hours for an ambulance the last time I used 111, I would have been dead.
They sent a first responder within 15 minutes, and he called an ambulance which arrived five minutes later.

whitewave Thu 11-Jan-18 20:36:57

The rise in homeless and those people in temporary and filthy accommodation with children will also need more frequent health care and put pressure on the system. That must have risen enormously

durhamjen Thu 11-Jan-18 20:35:36

Fullfact doesn't agree with your figures, either.

fullfact.org/health/accident-and-emergency-attendances-and-performance/

durhamjen Thu 11-Jan-18 20:32:15

"4. Are waiting times increasing because more people are going to A&E?

The number of people going to A&E has risen substantially over time. In 2016/17 there were 23.4 million attendances at A&E departments – the equivalent of 63,000 attendances each day on average. Between 2011/12 and 2016/17, A&E attendances grew on average by 1.7 per cent each year, and increased by 1.9 million in total (or 8.8 per cent). This is the equivalent of an extra 5,100 more A&E attendances each day. The growth in attendances has been higher in type 3 A&Es (such as walk-in centres and minor-injury units), compared to type 1 (major) or type 2 (specialist) A&Es.

However, the rising number of attendances at A&E is not the main factor affecting performance. The increased pressure on A&E departments is more closely associated with rising numbers of emergency admissions to hospital and reduced capacity to meet this rising demand.

It is the emergency admissions from A&E rather than attendances themselves that place greater demands on health services, because patients admitted as emergencies usually need more complex care from a wider range of professionals, and an available bed in an appropriate ward must be found for these patients before they can be admitted.

Figure 4 shows that, compared to 2011/12, attendances at type 1 (major) and all A&E departments have increased at a faster rate than growth in the general population. However, emergency admissions via type 1 A&E departments, which account for over 70 per cent of all emergency admissions to hospital, have increased at an even greater rate than attendances. "

From King's Fund.
Where did you get your 7x increase over last year, jalima?

Jalima1108 Thu 11-Jan-18 20:25:27

ie Speak to someone, wait for a call back from a nurse who decides you need to speak to a doctor, wait ages for a call back, who then decides you need to go to A&E, which is what you were trying to avoid - but might as well have gone there in the first place.

Jalima1108 Thu 11-Jan-18 20:23:46

We have never had a very positive experience with 111 although we haven't used it very much.

whitewave Thu 11-Jan-18 20:22:50

cheese that’s right. I’ve had cause to call 111 twice for what should have been for a doctor a very straightforward question, but both times I was told to go to A&E

Ilovecheese Thu 11-Jan-18 20:18:52

It was also the replacement of NHS direct with 111 that has caused more people going to A & E because there are less qualified people answering the calls, a cost cutting exercise which has ended up costing more, not less.

Jalima1108 Thu 11-Jan-18 20:13:47

There was some more jolly chat as well, I should add!!

Jalima1108 Thu 11-Jan-18 20:13:27

whitewave GracesGran I was at a U3A meeting the other day and much of the chat was about people's health, their OH's health, what treatment they were having (good as far as I could ascertain) and how the NHS had 'saved their OH's life' or given them excellent care.
I don't think many of the people chatting are 'on their uppers' and I think older people need to pay a contribution as we no longer pay NI.

GracesGranMK2 Thu 11-Jan-18 20:10:16

I really do think we all knew that the very large 'baby-boomer' generation was getting old Jalima. I imagine you did, I certainly did so why didn't the government?

whitewave Thu 11-Jan-18 19:59:51

That’s all our age and older clogging up the system because of no social care I reckon. I also suspect that because of the way GPS work now, it means that you are forced to go to A&E rather than being able to contact a dr.

Jalima1108 Thu 11-Jan-18 19:55:58

I agree - there needs to be improvement - but did anyone foresee a 7x increase in admissions over last year? Even full staffing would be inadequate.

whitewave Thu 11-Jan-18 19:53:21

Or the A&E departments are understaffed by 2200 consultants, 10% shortage of nursing staff. The highest shortage of beds. The biggest cuts ever over the past few years to social care.

Jalima1108 Thu 11-Jan-18 19:38:58

Because there are seven times the numbers of patients perhaps?

whitewave Thu 11-Jan-18 19:34:37

Corbyn tweeted that patients waiting in A&E today for longer than the accepted practice is the worst ever.