NHS

'Labour’s resolution: “That this House expresses concern at the effect on patient care of the closure of 14,000 hospital beds since 2010; records its alarm at there being vacancies for 100,000 posts across the NHS; regrets the decision of the government to reduce social care funding since 2010; notes that hospital trusts have been compelled to delay elective operations because of the government’s failure to allocate adequate resources to the NHS; condemns the privatisation of community health services and calls on the government to increase cash limits for the current year to enable hospitals to resume a full service to the public, including rescheduling elective operations, and to report to the House by oral statement and written report before 1 February 2018 on what steps it is taking to comply with this resolution.” '

Did anyone see this this afternoon?

So cancer care being delayed because of staff shortage.

Imagine if you are a cancer sufferer!! I’d be frightened to death.

In the case of my LA you most certainly DO NOT get what you pay for.

Apologies for digression

YES I am complaining OldMeg (wouldn't call it whinging by any means).

For the record my DGC live in different LA than me but that is besides the point.

My complaint lies with a (financially) poor council (like mine) having to charge residents way above the national average for often much reduced services. How can it be fair that because we have a higher than average aged population (mainly ex heavy industry) that those who DO pay council tax have to pay highly inflated amounts in order to cover the shortfalls?

I am not talking about under funding either I am asking for a fair countrywide system, rather than a system where a Band A property in one (poor) LA pays more than a Band D in a far richer one.

I have not seen anyone say what the 'right' spend is for the NHS.
In England, it's £2,200 a head.
In Scotland, it's £2,500 a head. They have also had a 'winter crisis'.
In Wales, it's £2,300 a head.
In NI, it's £2,700 a head. Politicians there say the current situation in the local health care system "is not acceptable, sustainable or safe".

It seems that there's still a crisis, even if the spending is 22% higher.

How much money is needed?

The average per year from 1947 to 2010 was 4% GNP

2010| 2017 average spend 1.2%

Gillybob how can it be unfair to say we Brits whinge, when that’s exactly what you are doing now? Your council tax pays for your grandchildren’s eduction, among other things.

However, I was talking about income tax which goes towards funding the NHS and just using that as an example, because that is a charge fixed annually. If you can’t afford to pay Council Tax you can ask to have it spread over 12 months instead of 10

The money to pay for services have to come from somewhere, and while I’m all for raising the level for the well off especially, we all have to contribute if we fall into the tax bracket.

While I deplore this government for running the NHS, Education and Social Care into the ground I do recognise that they are tapping into the belief held by too many in this country that taxes have to be held at a low level. You do get what you pay for, and this idea that the current state of the NHS is just down to poor management is a load of bollocks, which some people are all too ready to believe.

I agree that just throwing money at it isn’t the way forward, but underfunding is at the heart of the current crisis.

Of course they are willing to pay a much higher rate of tax and therefore expect good value. Whereas us Brits whinge if there’s a £5 rise in council Tax

I don't think this statement is very fair OldMeg.

Council Tax is a very unfair tax. Living in a poor borough in the North East my council tax on my 2 bedroom terrace is far higher than that of a relative mansion in some rich boroughs (Kensington is a good example). Another 6% hike again on its way which we (and plenty like me) really can't afford.

I agree Nfk that ambulances should only be used in a emergency, but I consider s stroke an emergency and early paramedic treatment can be life saving or effect a better outcome.

A thought. Could some of the ambulance problem be lack of thought and people’s attitude? We live 45 minutes drive from the nearest A&E. When DH fell off a ladder and dislocated his elbow I drove him to hospital. When he had a stroke, I drove him to hospital. When our neighbour sliced his thumb half off, I drove him to hospital. It never occurred to us to wait for an ambulance. They were moveable. How many of these ambulance call outs are for people who could quite capably have been brought in by car?

Our local care home has a ward dedicated to Rehabilitation. It’s taken on half the beds that were in the cottage hospital. Strangely the beds aren’t permanently full. It’s all part of a complex with a Housing with Care opposite and district nurses and physios based there too. Plus a community centre and mini buses to bring in people from the area. A forward thinking local chemist gave the land for it and it works brilliantly. This is charity based although I think the care home is part of a company. It’s not the reason we moved here but certainly a benefit!

In France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy - when elderly people, or people with a handicap or others recovering from a severe illness or accident- will go and recuperate and be 'rehabilitated' (physio, occupational therapy, etc) - for week or few weeks- until ready t go home with the necessary help and support. A massive part of the NHS problem now is that all those places have been cut, closed, privatised- and all ottage hospitals gone. It is massive non-sense to keep thos people in hospital- and massively cruel and uncaring to just send them home- and totally counter-productive in the long run - as they will just be back, again and again.

whitewave, I share your concerns and also feel the biggest issue isn't whether he gets the funding needed to fun social care but whether he will approach privatisation of all social care services in the way he has Health.

Local Authority budgets are already stretched to the point front line services are being significantly reduced. I fear you're right though and we can expect further huge cuts to their budgets.

What kind of PM rewards someone who refuses to move with another very important area to foul up?

The biggest issue now is if Hunt also has social care, does he have the extra money to go with it? Only if not his budget will be stretched even further, which is appalling.

At present the money goes to the LAs - so we should expect a huge cut to LAs ministers budget?

They're not going to listen, are they? As long as this lot remain in power, they're simply not going to listen.... Let's face it, as long as they keep getting voted in, why should they?

So much for democracy. It pops its head up every five years or so, then whoever's in Government does what they like till the next election.

I'm not sure if I'm more or more . Both.

I love Jonathan Pie Thanks dj and so true!

Warning, Pie swears a lot ...

but he is spot on - just as Chomsky describes the process of privatisation, undermine the system so it does not work, wait long enough for people to suffer and become desperate- then privatise. It is so simple

www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/1434433863346169/

There's also another rally in London on 25th January with Corbyn and Ashworth.

skwawkbox.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/nhs-rally.png

By the way, if you think you are on your own, read the comments on the review/crowdjustice page.
Cheered me up no end.

A judicial review, by the way.

999callfornhs.org.uk/999-judicial-review/4593838706

Which I have mentioned before, and to which I have contributed financially - you know what they say, put your money where your mouth is.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/ellen-lees/brexit-isnt-only-thing-parliament-needs-to-demand-vote-on-right-now-nhs-is-too

This is what you need to write to your MPs about.
Hunt could use Henry V111 powers to get through ACOs.

We sadly have a safe Tory seat here so our MP is able to treat constituents concerns with contempt as does his leader!

www.thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/nhs_fix_it

She said she'd listened to the people on Sunday, Andrew Marr's show, Iam.
That's why she is not going to have a vote to repeal the fox hunting!