Carillion

Ha the well known ‘kick it into the long grass inquiry solution’. That’ll work. I think you meant that the Government has known since last year lemon although the FT first flagged up potential problems in 2013. The profits warning in July last year led to a 79% drop in share value. There was an interesting and I thought quite impressive woman Tory MP from the PA Select Committee on C4 tonight and she was saying very similar things and posing similar questions to what some of us on here have been saying - views that your post rather patronisingly dismisses as well as, as usual, being a completely inaccurate statement about the views some of us have expressed. There’s enough education, intelligence, relevant experience and political and economic understanding from some posters who do understand much of what is happening with Carillion. If you and others dont, there’s no need to tar us with your particular brush. I suppose though to be far it must be tough being a Government supporter at the moment.Bless

part of the reason for privatisation is surely the fact that governments cannot pay a bigger public sector wage roll than we already do

Where do you think the money that is paying the private contractors comes from? The government pays the contractors to do the work and not only does the payment cover the wages etc it also pays the profits which go to the shareholders as dividend.

and giving large contracts to the private sector means that the country is not stuck with even more public sector pensions, early retirement, longer holidays , potential strike action and everything else that goes with public sector jobs.

No, it means that private companies can cut wages to the bone (and are subsidised by tax credits to low paid workers) and cut staffing to the bone. And because their staff aren't unionised they can be exploited with very little comeback. And I rather think that the list of things which you so resent public sector workers getting are probably a thing of the past, now.

And the Carillion staff, like the BHS staff before them won't be getting much of a pension at all because there were/are huge chunks of pension funds missing from those companies.

You do seem to have a very Victorian attitude to workers, Gillybob. God made them poor so they don't deserve fair wages and good working conditions, eh?

Yes, snap, GracesGran.
The problem with Carillion is the management just sat back and waited until they couldn't wait any more.
I guess there are no Carillion sites where you live, lemon.

Carillion shouldn't have applied for contracts if they knew they didn't have the backing or finance.
They took a third of a big contract in Durham, the city centre, shops, student accommodation, a new cinema. Last month, in fact a month ago today, the other two partners took over from Carillion as they knew there was no way they could continue in the financial state Carillion was in.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/business/business-news/milburngate-scheme-durham-stays-track-14043618

Shared from FB.

Good post gillybob
Some posters are talking as if they know all about this subject, and more, and are experts!
It’s very complicated.The government have known this year that Carillion had problems and awarded them contracts to help keep them going ( and protect jobs) but sadly to no avail.
I prefer to wait for any inquiry before chucking stones.

Snap I think Jen.

Tell that to all the people working for Carillion, probably on minimum wage.

It's government policy to privatise and have rich people take profits.
It's similar to the NHS.
Carillion is a building company, yet it runs hospital wards, car parks, cleaning companies. Why is that acceptable.
Like I said, it won the contract to improve broadband in Devon and Cornwall. Why was it even allowed to bid for it?

Are you saying that it's better to have the shareholders in Carillion take money out of the company than to allow children's school meals to be run by the councils?
I read that in Sunderland there were fire engines on stnadby to take meals to schools!
That's okay because it's a private company, and they always do things better than the public, don't they?

Vaux Brewery site closed today because Carillion were given the contract. It's going to be finished by Sunderland Council so it can open this year.
So a public group can take over, then hand it back to the private sector, because they know how to run things, don't they?

the fact that governments cannot pay a bigger public sector wage roll than we already do

a) Governments do not pay, the tax payer does. There is only one reason why they cannot pay a bigger public sector wage role, etc., because this government is trying to cut taxes for the better off.

b) Don't you realise the cost is likely to be very much the same. In the first instance you pay a very few people to get even richer than they were, and those at the bottom of the wages tree get less than they can live on. If you bring it back in house you can stop the massive bonuses and payouts that can't be afforded to shareholders (as in this case) and pay a proper wage to those at the bottom of the wages tree.

Don't you realise there is rarely any saving it is just about how you distribute what you are willing to pay.

What happens if a company like this takes over cleaning a hospital. The top guy's salary goes up, they take a huge bonus and shareholders benefit from unearned income. The people actually making this happen get lower wages and less secure contracts. Why do you want to live in a world that treats your fellow man in that way?

Apologies but I was interrupted before I could fully write my last post. The reason I brought JC into the argument was that part of the reason for privatisation is surely the fact that governments cannot pay a bigger public sector wage roll than we already do and giving large contracts to the private sector means that the country is not stuck with even more public sector pensions, early retirement, longer holidays , potential strike action and everything else that goes with public sector jobs. The fact that Carillion obviously couldn’t fulfill the services fro the prices quoted is the crux of the problem. Not to mention all those poor SME’s that they have outsourced to. I imagine JC’s perfect Labour Party would be to bring as much as possible under his Public sector wing.
This is not an anti public sector view btw (I realise that the vast amount of GN members are ex public sector) it is merely a view as to why governments have tried to outsource jobs rather than increase the number of public sector workers under the ever watchful eye of Unite.

Devon and Cornwall will have to wait for their faster broadband. Carillion won the contract.

More Tory corruption.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-heading-land-banking-review-received-donations-company-undeveloped-site/

Carillion are blaming the uncertainty of Brexit as one of the pressures. I’d like to see more evidence before I accept that.

There are rather worryingly on social media hints that Carillion is only the first.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/01/15/are-we-heading-for-another-economic-crash/

Wrong. Now the Competition and Markets authority.
So monopolies are allowed now.

Isn't it now the Mergers and Monopolies commission, and supposed to stop stuff like this?

Going back a long time now, but whatever happened to the monopolies commission?

A total Tory shambles.

Good tweet

“Apart From Carillion, The east Coast rail bailout, collapsing care homes, the army covering for G4S during the olympics, and the banks sinking the world into austerity, the private sector is always the answer”

Theresa Maybe

It is worth remembering that it is not just Carillion employees who are affected, most of those are still working and have been told their wages will be paid.

The construction industry among others uses a high proportion of sub-contractors and agency staff and they have just been put out of work without warning and with many of them owed £k, that they have no confidence that they will ever receive. These are the people really suffering from the collapse of this company.

Corbyn just sees the public sector as a bloomin’ bottomless pit of money ( called tax payers).

So simple to say but not a single fact to back it up. Any government is going to spend money. You talk as if the Cons never do. I think we have just seen how much their system can cost in in cash and in people's lives. It's easy to be glib but it only tells us how unthinking those who back the Tories can be.

All services have to be paid for. Good services need reasonable taxation - that is a fact. Wasting money the way the Cons do is their answer. Couldn't you have that scary thought that nothing could really be worse and another government is very, very likely to do a better job.

Jalima if the government wanted to control the use of contractors it is well within its means to devise ways of doing this

I absolutely agree with GillT. I worked in the energy and engineering industry and at times was quite close to the bidding procedures, apart from being responsible for issuing tenders and evaluating bids for much, much smaller contracts in my own field. Not only did we not evaluate on price alone, but we made sure we were not too dependent on any one contractor. For one major national project in my field we deliberately split the work between several contractors to ensure resilience if one contractor failed.

I hope the workers have strong union to stand up for them.

www.unitetheunion.org/news/carillion-collapse-must-not-mean-business-as-usual-warns-unite/default.aspx

t.co/mQNIVLUY64

Good article by Peston.
Carillion is responsible for
50 prisons
8675 schools
200 operation theatres
11800 inpatient beds.

And were allowed to so do as contract after contract was thrown at them by the government