The President's Club Annual Gala - "Men Behaving Badly"

Trisher did not say it was fact, Annie. She said many have alleged; and they have.

Women don't have to be dressed like that to attract unwanted attention.

www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/presidents-club-charity-gala-groping-sexual-harass/

I presume they thought they were safe en-masse.

Fact trisher ? Was Barrie a paedophile? Do people imagine Peter Pan is a simple story ? Is your - it's a tragic story wuth sinister implications a fact or someone looking for something that isn't there but fits wuth the paedophile allegations.

or does it belong to - Sleeping Beauty was really on drugs and Snow White was a nymphomaniac

POGS many have alleged that Barrie was a paedophile and his relationship with the Llewelyn Davies boys who he adopted after their parents' deaths (and forged a document to do so) has always been questioned. Peter Pan is not the simple story most imagine, it has a dark side. It's a tragic story with very sinister implications- worth reading about.

Just reading through this thread again & having commenting earlier on, I am equally appalled that these woman do not know what they signed,this surely could lead to their names etc being used without them being able to do anything about it. It was allegedly quite a lengthy disclaimer.

I admit my initial reaction to charities such as GOSH handing the money back was a bit of a knee jerk reaction having thought about it more and listened to others, I think on balance they should have kept the money, what they do is so important.

I also don't think there should be a ban on all male or all female societies, but I have to admit I was glad to read the President's Club is no more it was just too archaic and sexist for words promoting in their words the "most non PC event of the year, and "spice up your wife with some plastic surgery bidding lot". What I particularly dislike is the premise that raising money for charity negates any hanky panky that may occur during the evening. One poster cited an incident at a rotary club years ago when a load of men there behaved in an inappropriate way when she was waiting on tables. Why should staff doing these jobs have to put up with a load of men having a laugh at their expense. That's not to say that I think all men do, my husband assures me that the very few all male golf club dinners he has attended the staff are male and female and treated with respect. We've discussed this latest debacle he loathes the type of men who behave in such a way having four granddaughers, his older three being the age of the women doing the waiting. He is also of the opinion that men who behave in such a way should have the imagination to consider how they would feel if one the young women being groped were their daughter or granddaughter.

There are quite a lot of posts pointing out that women also behave badly at hen dos where men may be taking their clothes off. True these women also make me cringe but as others have said the men have offered themselves up for that purpose their choice and I suppose one could say the same about lap dancers/strippers, their choice, unless of course it isn't. Have not read about trafficked men working in the equivalent of a lap dancing club, but who knows in this day and age

I think someone said that the FT expose was a put up job, quite possibly, I think the Harvey Weinstein affair opened a Pandora's Box out of which, I agree, there has been a demonisation of men per se. Nevertheless, I don't think it's a bad thing if some misogynist old dinasaurs get caught up in the crossfire but I would concede we must not assume all the men who attended that night behaved badly.

Having waited to post and listen to different sides of the story, I think the ' kangaroo court' usually goes into overdrive on subjects such as this, I think there are many issues that are raised.

The ' women' must have had a pretty good idea that there employment for that function was to be for the purpose of ' looking pretty' and that includes the journalist who took the job but her reason for being there was for a wholely different purpose.

If walks like a duck, it's a duck.

Now that also does not mean it would/could necessarily turn into some sort of perverted evening and if the 'allegations' are true then there were indeed some grown men who overstepped the mark . However to simply pick out a few names of attendees and 'presume' he /they are guilty of lewd behaviour is equally guilty of overstepping the mark and to be honest a far worse situation because it no longer remains an allegation but becomes the absolute truth to some who for whatever reason are content to tar and feather ALL men as some sort of different species that cannot control themselves.

I find the posts that comment " Rich white males thinking they can do what they want. ", comparing this to the likes of the Bradford Grooming Gangs are ridiculous and lacking in context and prejudiced by using race as a card to play.

Then there is the handing back by Great Osmond Street of 'tainted' money associated with sexualisation of women.

Great Ormond Street has set a precedent has it not. What if JM Barrie were to be found to be a paedophile ? What if GOSH has taken funding from a Dictator , Criminal, etc.? If there was a Freedom of Information request asking for the names of ALL donators and there were names and associations that perhaps were by far worse than the Presidents Club donation would GOSH stand by it's principle and hand the money back? If not, why not.

I see so many sides to this episode but I cannot see why there is a cry for banning all male all female functions , that has totally lost the plot.

Of course it wasn’t set up Sinnysuzie it had been going on 30 years how can it be set up The Ft sent a reporter undercover after tip offs that it was a ‘way beyond normal’ event and after they d heard complaints
I’ve read although the women were given 5 page disclaimers they were given a couple of minutes to sign so no way they would have read it
I would imagine although the ladies who had done it before may have known it could have been that new comers didn’t realise how bad They would have expected to be looked at admired maybe even had suggestive comments about them but I doubt any expected hands up their clothes or even in one case a todger being got out
About the women at men stripper nights that is totally different as the stripper is offering himself to be touched, stroked, admired etc his whole fee is paid to titilate and offer his body to the screaming women . a waitress or hostess is not being paid for that
Even lap dancing and strip clubs have a no touching rule
These

I see Jimmy Tarbuck has come out and said that he was there but only to give the Loyal Toast and then he left. He goes on to site Hen Partiers as being examples of bad behaviour and objectification of men.

Adults do what adults do like it or not. If any women feel they were sexually assaulted that night they are free to go to the police NOW rather than wait 30 years or so as seems to be the timescale that some women suddenly remembered someone assaulted them. I personally would not go to a function like that but those women who went along under their own free will they were not forced. What I find sickening is the gutter press acting like lily white prudes as if butter would not melt in their mouth.

How come groping is not allowed in lap dancing clubs where women who work there certainly know they will be ogled? Yet people her are apologists for men groping women at this event because the “ girls must have known” what it would be like.

For those asking whether we've read the article and wondering why anybody would find the idea of telling people they needed to wear black underwear as 'normal', I would say, 'Yes, I have read the article and think there are big red flags with this bit:
"The uniform requirements also became more detailed: all hostesses should bring “BLACK sexy shoes”, black underwear, and do their hair and make-up as they would to go to a “smart sexy place”."'

Personally, I would have though it would have told me all I needed to know about the type of event it was. As they were employed to serve alcoholic drinks, they'd have also known that there were likely to be drunks there. On that basis, you either have to be prepared to tell unruly un-gentlemen where to go if they are inappropriate, put up with such behaviour or avoid the job at all costs. In an ideal world, you should be able to parade your body around in front of drunken men (or women) without them drooling into their soup or taking every opportunity to touch you but we don't live in an ideal world. Surely common sense has to prevail if you don't want to be put into an uncomfortable/dangerous situation. If you don't care enough about yourself to take sensible precautions, rather sadly, nobody else is likely to. We will never completely eradicate the sort of behaviour shown at this event so we have to take some sort of responsibility. We also have to ensure that men and women can respectfully "make moves" on each other otherwise procreation will be a thing of the past. Unfortunately, there will always be misinterpretation of another's willingness to take a relationship further so there will always be "incidents" of what people will interpret as "abuse." We just have to do our best to minimise those.

These young woman must have had some idea of what they were letting themselves in for. The dress code and disclaimer should have made it pretty obvious! The agency also must have made it clear to them, if not, then the agency is at fault. Sadly men will always be men, and the only way to stop this sort of behaviour is for girls to refuse to work at these sort of gigs.

I think GOSH returning £530K is virtual signalling of the worst kind.

Have they always been this picky? Of course not. It's just that this time some negative publicity has caused a knee-jerk reaction.

If they can afford to part with the money they should send it to Yemen where malnourished children suffering from cholera and diphtheria are clinging to life without the benefit of a high tech hospital to support them.

I can't imaging Medecins sans Frontieres sending it back!!

I doubt if 'they' would manage to get the Dorchester Hotel closed down!

If they knew from previous years what it was like - how can it be a “set up job”?

The treatment these girls witnessed and experienced is totally unacceptable, however, I think it was probably only a minority of the men who were behaving so badly. I am concerned that it would appear none of the other men attending intervened to protect the young women.

I think the whole thing was a set up job. The journalists, or whoever was backing them, wanted to make an example of this event knowing from previous years what it was like. Whether it was done to get the venue closed down, to publicise the cause, or just to sell newspapers who knows.

I think everyone agrees that men shouldn't behave in such ways and that if any of our husbands, partners, brothers or sons behaved in such ways we'd be disgusted with them. There will always be a difference between shouldn't happen and what does happen though. That is not to excuse bad behaviour, just to accept reality and to warn naive people of what sordid reality encompasses so that they can, if they wish, be on their guard.

I think the publicity surrounding this particular event will have the effect of making such events even more socially unacceptable than they already are.

Actually, I have felt uncomfortable about quite a lot of charity fundraising for at least twenty years. A lot of it seems to me to be rather over the top and, really, rather gross even when there is no actual gross behaviour. Mind you, I think charity pestering by phone and chugging on the streets is on the grossness scale if at its milder end.

Whether or not these women accepted that being groped was part of the job is not the point. There will always be those, both male and female, who will sell their favours for profit, naievity or out of dire need.

The question is whether you would accept your son, husband, father etc behaving in that manner. I can honestly say that my son would never treat a woman in this way, no matter how she dressed or how others were behaving and indeed he would have either left, or made a fuss. Likewise my DH.

Stop blaming the women who were at the receiving end and look at the type of Neanderthal who thinks that this is acceptable behaviour. Trump comes to mind.

I have read many comments and responses to this story and I do understand that the women who signed disclaimers and wore sext shoes must have known what tone the event would have but decided to do it anyway because of the high fee and exorbitant tips.

However, my take on it is this. If the men would not want their own daughters groped and ogled by strangers then they should not do it to the daughters of others.

It is a grubby, sleazy event and the men who paid to attend it so they could exploit girl children should be ashamed of themselves. The girls who think it is OK to make money in their way should have the situation outlined to them in ways that make them see for themselves how dangerous and how lacking in common morality their choices and behaviour are.

These women were not children they are adults and knew full well what would go on, had it been an all female event with male waiters scantly dressed we would not have heard a peep of protest. A girl who applied along with her friend was turned down by the agency because they had the number they wanted. The girl who was turned down told the newspaper. My niece life models for an all male art group from 7.30 to 9.30 pm there are 20 men in the group who all pay £10 each to the model she models twice per week so she takes Home £400 per week for 4 hours. It was advertised in an art magazine and she applied.

theconversation.com/presidents-club-dinner-why-good-deeds-never-justify-bad-actions-90678

Years ago I worked in a reputable Restaurant as a full-time waitress, one evening we had Round Table in for Dinner, about 100 businessmen, they behaved like naughty schoolboys. This was 50+ years ago, one "gentleman" asked me what would happen if he undid my apron strings, I asked him if he would like to eat the trifle in my hand or wear it, he ate it. I would add I was only 17/18 at the time.

Nothing changes

Every day in the media we hear about women and girls being molested by men. It’s about time women and girls learned to expose this kind of abuse and fight back, maybe by slapping or screaming at the perpetrator to draw attention to their vile behaviour. I cannot understand how young women in this day and age are so naive that when told to wear provocative clothing, they have little idea of what will be expected of them. There needs to be a lot more awareness of potentially unsavoury situations which should be avoided. Have we really become so feeble that we have to put up with such pathetic behaviour and can deal with it only by running to the press?