The Poverty of Brexit

Churchill on Europe

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Heseltine.

"Talking to the Observer, he said: “The speech just moves us further down the cherry-picking road. It set out the cherries that Britain wants to pick but that approach completely ignores the fact that the EU has said, ‘sorry there is no cherry picking’.”

He added: “Why is it that after 18 months since the referendum we have not got any closer with these issues? The answer is simple: because no one has got any answer about how to do it.”

He said the huge gulf between what May was asking for and what the EU would be prepared to give was as wide, if not wider, than ever, leaving UK businesses in despair, and with no option but to consider postponing investment, or placing their money and plans elsewhere."

I don't often agree with him, but I do on this.

Article about the sun's facts.

infacts.org/fake_news_posts/sun-nixes-article-faulty-maths-customs-union-prices/

Looks like Rees-Mogg and Johnson have lost.

infacts.org/rees-mogg-telegraphs-impotence-bojo-loses-mojo/

"Rees-Mogg and Johnson desperately need a Brexit deal because they are worried that there will be no Brexit at all if the government tries to crash out of the EU without one. Their mantra of “no deal is better than a bad deal” has been replaced by “any deal is better than no deal”. "

Sorry - way up there I said was were it should have been wasn't.

yep... and those who are now saying 'oh I am bored- just get on and do it' - will probably be those who will a) suffer the most and b) complain the loudest most bitter way.

The sorry fact is that brexit propaganda does not and never has had any relationship with facts.

It has won votes and corrupted the better judgement of ordinary folk by rejecting facts, rejecting expert advice, rejecting truth and fostering belief in lies, fantasies and more lies.

The worse thing about the Sun's 'facts' was that they were endorsed by the Leave Economists. You know, the only group of economists who forecast that we'd be better off out of the EU.

It doesn't engender much confidence in their economic nous, does it...?

The Sun printed some “facts” about supposed savings on various products after Brexit. Mogg promptly repeated them. The Sun was found to be lying and withdrew the article immediately.

Mogg is still repeating the lie

Michele Hanson re cognised him for what he is. You lie Rees-Mogg.

We have by far and away the very best deal of any EU member country. We are not in Schengen, or the Euro and we have a rebate that no other counrty has.

What a brilliant deal. We take our place around the table to agree common regulations and we have a veto on any new countries joining. What's not to like!!!!

How could anyone in their right mind, if informed of these facts, possibly vote to give up membership of the world's largest and most successful trading block?

What on earth do you think the commission and European Parliament did then? lucky sit on their asses all day?

When I voted many years ago about joining the EU, non of us that voted would have believed all our decision making would go to Brussels, ...

I am very happy with the vote I made all those years ago thank you Lucky Girl. I agree with others that all our decision making was made in Brussels. Take the Schengen Area. We decided not to join and we are not part of it - so we do still control our boarders. The Euro - did Brussels make us join - no, it was our choice.

As for May not getting support - that is certainly true. Up till now she has been having to negotiate with members of her own party! On "Dateline London" this morning someone suggested we were being led by "someone from middle-management". Now middle managers do a very good job but we need a leader as PM and we just don't have one.

John Grace

“Having successfully spelled out all the reasons why leaving the EU was a terrible idea, May moved on to describe how she was hoping to achieve her Managed Ambitious Divergence or MAD for short”

Life is all the merrier with Grace’s comments

jura2 I think this is one issue that people are simply not prepared to believe could happen.

What about a different kind of poverty- the poverty of security. With Putin joining the Trump and Kim nuclear d*ck waving - don't you think we would be much safer in a strong united European coalition - does it make any sense to isolate us from our closest allies?

I know who I would put in each category, Maizie.

Tegan, while it seems to be vastly unfair on public sector workers I think that MPs argue that they have no choice other than to accept the pay rise. It is not arranged by them but by IPSA; an entirely independent body which was, I believe, set up so as to avoid MPs having to be involved in any way with deciding their pay rises. At 1.8% it is below the rate of inflation.

Having said that, I'm not defending it and I think that MPs embarrassed by it should donate the extra to charity, or something...

OTH, there is a conflict of perceptions here

Are MPs dedicated and hardworking public servants doing an incredibly important job for what actually amounts to not much reward for the vast responsibilities it imposes on them.

Or, are they idle, self seeking, lying, cheating b*stards swilling at the trough of the Westminster gravy train and out to make as much money as they can from hardworking tax payers.

I've heard both versions!

..and some NHS staff are sleeping in hospitals so as not to be available to treat people....

1.8%, Tegan, or over £1300.

Is it true that the govt have awarded themselves yet another pay rise? And what is going to happen with out steel exports to America if they implement this new tariff? Thought America was going to be our saviour?

In lots of trade deals after we leave the EU we will be competing directly with the EU.
Why would any other country trade with the UK's 60+ million, as opposed to the EU's 500+ million?

Lucky: All our decision making did not go to Brussels, only that which affected the whole EU. Anything that concerned the UK is decided by our government, Just as Scottish affairs are decided in Scotland and Welsh in Wales. It is called 'subsidiarity'
The world is much more open to us as part of the EU than it will be when we try to get deals alone. What we did for centuries was build an Empire and rake in the money & goods. We don't even have free trade with most of the Commonwealth any more so stop looking back in nostalgia to a time long gone.

All our decision making didn't go to Brussels. We had more opt-outs than any other EU country.
That was another of the myths that Brexiteers told us to get our vote. Now they don't know what to with the fact that they won, and wish they had not.

lucky have you examined the percentage of trade we can maximise from other countries as opposed to continuing trade with the EU?

Have you read the truth that countries throughout the world do best when having close trading links with their nearest neighbours

Have you read the fact that whoever we trade with throughout the world will require regulatory alignment

Have you considered what may happen to one part of our nation if we insist on closing off a border which has been instrumental in achieving the saving of thousands of lives and misery.

Do you understand how the various agencies with which we. Participate are gold standard compared with the rest of the world

There is a lot more

I don't think Theressa May has had the support she should have received. She has no alternative but to follow the path the country voted for. When I voted many years ago about joining the EU, non of us that voted would have believed all our decision making would go to Brussels, that wasn't what I signed up for. I think a great wrong was done then, when I knew there was to be a referendum to get us out it was unbelievable to me that wrong might be righted. If the vote had been remain, obviously I like many others would have had to accept that, I just hope that Brexit happens in a way that will in the long run, be beneficial to all citizens. I do not think there will be poverty in Brexit, quite the opposite, we a strong nation and resourceful, we can work with all countries successfully, in fact it opens the world to us, we did it for centuries we can do it now.