Yet another school shooting in the USA

Today, it is estimated that the NRA spends about $250m per year, far more than all the country’s gun control advocacy groups put together. In 2016, it endorsed Mr Trump’s presidential run and provided his campaign with up to $30m. Shortly after he took office, Mr Trump attended the NRA’s national convention in Atlanta.

“Only one candidate in the general election came to speak to you, and that candidate is now the president of the United States, standing before you,” he said. “You came through for me, and I am going to come through for you.”

Since then, Mr Trump has been a vocal supporter of gun rights. He supports a Republican bill pending before the Senate that the NRA considers its legislative priority and which would establish a nationwide right to carry a concealed weapon – even in those states and cities opposed to such laws.

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1245265-Yet-another-school-shooting-in-the-USA?msgid=26594374#26594374

I agree that for us in Britain, it is useless to become overly concerned as nothing can/will be done for the reasons in this thread.

Unless you have personal connections with the US, it's a non story. So quite why the beeb gave it so much coverage this morning is puzzling. Presumably nothing of note is happening in these shores?

Surely it is important to know something about what is going on in the USA. We are supposed to have a "special relationship" . Surely you only have to be a human being to identify with the victims of the gun culture in America?

Trump and his supporters are sending them their "thoughts and prayers". Erica Buist's twitter post makes a very good point.

I would apologize to all who reside in the United States or others who may have family or friends living there, but I can no longer find any sympathy for any person in that country when these events occur.

The foregoing is a terrible statement to make, but powerful vested interests along with a "psyche" in favour of the freedom to carry arms means that the situation at least in the foreseeable future will not change.

A few years back a mass shooting occurred in a primary school which resulted in even higher casualties than this latest tragedy. The father of one of the children who died in the attack went on television within a few days of the "massacre" and in that interview still defended the right of all Americans to openly purchase and carry arms

With widespread thinking and belief such as the above deeply held within the United States, little sympathy should be offered to that country whenever these instances take place. It would seem that America has come to accept these tragedies with the now "traditional" ringing of hands and the on television shedding of tears. However, within a few weeks or even days we have again the "traditional" shrugging of shoulders and life goes on the same as we all await the next mass murder.

We know a great deal about what is going on in the US in general but school shootings don’t merit the blanket coverage they get here - we have nothing to learn from them so why do we want to see footage after footage of the children escaping, interviews with parents etc etc. If after watching this we could do something it might be different but we can’t - not one damn thing. So why cover it in such detail?

And as for the Sandy Hook shooting, there is a group in the States who believe it was all a hoax. No doubt this group is funded by the NRA

MaryEliza totally agree.

That's very unfair, Grandad1943. Most Americans do not agree with the widespread availability of arms. Varian's link shows this and I have seen other similar reports. It's the psyche of some Americans but by no means the majority.

My son and his American wife's family do not, and never have, owned guns. In the face of the NRA, they and many millions of Americans are powerless to do anything to stop them.

You might as well say that we should have no sympathy for the impoverished in other countries because their leaders are corrupt, a situation which they are also powerless to change.

I hope you don't include my attitude in your post Grandad! as I do have every sympathy with the the people of the the U.S. concerning this dreadful occurrence and others like it. To shrug and say the U S can just get on with it is pretty negative to say the least. While the U.S. government is sadly lacking this can hardly be the fault of children, who aren't responsible for their governments policies and don't actually deserve to be murdered and should surely get our sympathy and shock.

If do many people disagree with the right to bear arms, then how come there hadn’t been an overwhelming mass movement against it?

Look at what we did after Dunblane - there was a lot of well connected opposition (including D of E) and I believe Australia did something similar after a mass shooting. They could do it if they really wanted - we did

And I am never shocked at any mass shooting in the USA - just mildly surprised there aren’t even more.

Of course they could do it if they wanted to, but I think we can still be sympathetic when children are murdered through no fault of their own.

I think the way forward is for improvement to be made State by State. They do vary in their legislation. Then statistics will show how incidents can be made less frequent. But there are such entrenched attitudes it will take years.

But where does being sympathetic take us? A complete waste of time - it’s up to all the parents in the US to do something to protect their children isn’t it?

MaryEliza, nigglynellie, if there is widespread opposition to the current United States gun legislation, why is it that no organized opposition group(s) have emerged despite the numerous mass shootings that have occurred.

America was at one time the leading nation in the world in "outing" evil, wrong and injustice and in doing that demonstrating how the foregoing could be routed. I am sure that many on this forum look back with huge respect to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s and the organisation and leadership which emerged to right all that was wrong despite vested interest and bigotry wishing to see the status qua remain.

The situation in America now in regard to those who wish to see change in gun control I view as near equal to those that wished to witness racial equality in those tumultuous years of the 1960s. However, no such similar organized movement has emerged, and in that those of us outside of the United States can only see that no great "mood" for change exists

The second amendment before the right to attend school securely seems to be in the predominance throughout America.

I thought that if anything would make a difference, it would have been Sandy Hook. It didn’t

My attitude to the Civil Rights Movement was indeed huge respect for the campaigners and fighters ( many of whom died and were injured) and utter utter contempt for a country in the second half of the 20 th century which exhibited such hatred for black people. I also remember McCarthyism so no, I’ve never seen the USA as a leading nation in anything.

I agree with loopyloo, that a State by State approach to this problem might be the way forward. I also agree that it would almost certainly be an uphill battle.
I have no idea why there are no organised opposition to the carrying of firearms, how could I?! but I think it would be,a poor world where sympathy was considered useless and a waste of time. No sympathy for the innocents of Syria then, another situation we can do nothing about - very sad.

As Varian's stats show the majority of USA citizens are in favour of guncontrol but their views are ignored by those with the big money and power. I suppose that the Gun industry in the US makes mega bucks.

It is worth noting that under the laws in force at the time the Dunblane killer was refused a gun licence, which was only granted when powerful establishment friends put pressure on the Police. The (conspiracy?) theory is that he was a member of a 'rich and powerful' paedophile ring, who was able therefore to demand favours of the other members.

We are a small country and cannot shrug off such tragedies as happening 'elsewhere'. Public concern over Dunblane throughout the UK was able to influence the powers that be leading to the changes in Gun Law here.

If an article I was reading only yesterday is correct, Donald Trump is having a federal bill drawn up that would allow the carrying of concealed weapons, even where individual states have legislation or bring in legislation to the contrary.

Perhaps someone on the forum may have further information on that.

You are right Grandad

Donald Trump is supporting controversial new legislation that would give people a nationwide right to carry concealed weapons – a measure that has been opposed by police chiefs across the country.

At the moment, concealed carry permits are issued by individual states. For example, a permit issued in Mississippi, where gun regulations are relaxed, does not allow a person to carry a weapon in California, where gun laws are much stricter.

But a bill that would mean each state has to recognise another state’s permit, in the same way it does driving licenses, recently passed the House of Representatives and a version of the legislation is now being considered by the Senate. In 2013, a similar bill failed by three votes.

The development has delighted gun rights activists and lobbyists, such as the National Rifle Association (NRA), which spent $30m supporting Mr Trump’s candidacy. The organisation has said passing the so-called Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill is currently its main legislative priority.

Tim Schmidt, founder of the United States Concealed Carry Association (USCCC), is a leading proponent of the bill and claims the demand for such a right is supported by the US Constitution. He said the constitution’s 2nd Amendment gave Americans the right to bear arms and that the constitution carried more weight than the rights of individual states.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-carry-weapons-concealed-permit-reciprocity-guns-permit-new-bill-law-right-a8207536.html

I think we are witnessing the slow decline of USA, rather like the Roman Empire of its day. It once was a country to be respected, even admired in some areas, not now. I once would have envied a friend or relative for having the opportunity to live and work there, now I would not. A country that has elected a liar, fantasist and philanderer as president is to be pitied, not admired. The sound of his insincere, pitiful apology for a speech after the latest massacre, his blaming of mental illness for the mass murder, his calls for prayers, made me sick.

I get the impression DT (and no doubt lots of others) think the appropriate response to the latest tragedy is not to ban guns, but to have more of them so that the perpetrator can be shot before he shoots too many other people. Where on earth is that attitude going to take the US?

I had not thought of it like that Gill but I think you are right. When we were young the movies taught us that the USA had won the war for us, all had TVs, big cars and refrigerators and it was the land of opportunity where anyone with determination could make it big. They developed into the Worlds Police Force, amazed us with their prowess in space, established the Internet, in short took over from the declining British Empire.

How things have changed. My DGC have no wish to go to the USA, not even to Disneyland. Legoland in Denmark is top of their must do list and they want to visit France and Spain so that they can use the little French and Spanish they have learned at school. They never play Cowboys and Indians or Spacemen and ask for Harry Potter themed parties. No hot dogs, fries or burgers for them - favourite food is Chinese or Indian.

If the USA is no longer the world's leader who is? The Chinese?