Labour back tracks and betrays the British public over Brexit.

Day6 as far as I'm concerned it's not about the hackneyed old Project Fear soundbite/cliche which you trot out in virtually every post.
It's about b****y angry that the the brexit ostriches are jeopardising the future of my grandchildren.

If we stay in (not that we are) it will cost us money. By us I mean myself and OH.
We will no longer be able to use an Aframe to tow a car.
Everyone with one of these will have to have a trailer and that will have to have an MOT. That goes for caravans as well, you will have to get it MOT'd.

It has to be the sort of Leave that doesn’t hedge us around with so many EU restrictions that we can’t fight our way out

What restrictions are those lemon?

OR so many Leave voters have become disillusioned with the (lack of) progress in negotiating any meaningful deal that they are rather less enthusiastic about brexit than the diehards on GN.

That's another Remain tactic isn't it?
I know of not one Leave voter who imagined getting out of the EU would be an easy process.
I know of not one Leave voter who (because of delays as you suggest) has changed their minds about being free of costly and prohibitive EU control.

For many, the nuts and bolts of prolonged negotiations has become a way of life.

Gransnet Remainers however pounce on every single bit of tittle tattle coming out of negotiations on an almost HOURLY basis, such is their desire to keep PROJECT FEAR alive. They choose the sources which back their beliefs of course. IE: 'We are all doomed.' (I suggest they'd love that outcome so they could crow 'I told you so')

The obsessive interest of Remainers isn't reflected in Leavers who take a much broader, more long term view.

Remainers pouncing on the minutiae hour by hour, obsessively, have an agenda. Project Fear.

Leavers merely want to be free of expensive and limiting EU control and to move forward. Roll on 2019.

Hard or soft Brexit, Customs Union or single market, were not mentioned on the voting paper(or the accompanying leaflets). Nobody knows what form of Brexit the 51% wanted.

OR so many Leave voters have become disillusioned with the (lack of) progress in negotiating any meaningful deal that they are rather less enthusiastic about brexit than the diehards on GN.
"Negotiations are under way" "We must wait and see" "Working parties are studying these questions" "It's too early to say."

Nothing concrete or solid at all. No real progress about immigrants' rights either present, transitional or future.
No reassurance re NI. Nothing to help SMEs with forward planning. That's without even looking at economic projections.

Yet we still have posts on GN telling us to be patient, to wait and see, to trust that all will be well.
Some are still quite happily sticking their heads in the sand.
What has been said or done to show us that any real progress has been achieved?
Months of useless hot air and, with just over a year to go, a hell of a lot still to be done.

"I still want to hear the Brexiteers condemn the rebel Tory MPs rather than the Labour MPs "

You've got it. I strongly suspect Tory MP Anna Soubry will lose her seat at the next election for being a thorn in the government's side in delivering the Brexit mandate and trying to thwart democracy and the will of the people.

She more than others has attempted to split the party. What she has achieved is high lighting her contempt for her party line and for democracy. She may be principled but she needs to remember she serves the people.

If a list of all MPs from all parties who attempted to prevent Brexit happening was issued at the next general election, many MPs would lose their seats. The Labour heartlands (apart from London) voted OUT. The Labour Metropolitan elite couldn't swing the vote.

They voted against Labour once and the world didn't collapse. It could happen again now that Labour appears to be sticking its middle finger up to working class voters and anyone who wants us to be free of Brussels control.

Leaving the EU was always something Corbyn wanted. He didn't campaign for Remain during the referendum, did her? He has always been a Eurosceptic. He is playing with fire now in changing his tune and alienating millions in the UK.

Corbyn is speaking tomorrow on Brexit, so it could all change again.

Although I do think he was the 'warm-up act' for the speech tomorrow. Starmer was using very precise language, as I'd expect from a lawyer. Nothing detailed, everything to be negotiated, just paving the way for JC.

There may be a huge majority in parliament for a soft Brexit, but to me this looks like Corbyn trying to force a vote of no confidence in May, using Brexit as the catalyst. I cannot see any Tory voting with him for that - even if they agree with the LP position on Brexit. Anna Soubry, for example, has a majority of 389. She will not vote for anything that could force an election.

Will be very interesting to see how this plays out though.

When has there ever been a mandate for a hard Brexit? I don't remember the public even being asked whether they wanted a hard or soft Brexit.

Some Brexiteers actually campaigned for a soft Brexit - I remember Norway's model being touted by several during the campaign but now they have back-tracked to a hard Brexit in a bait and switch

So is it not also betraying the public?

No day6 I didn’t say that I said Kate Hoey has a warped ideology as do all hard Brexiters.

I cannot get into a personal argument Day6 it is pointless, and gets us absolutely nowhere.

I would argue that you are entirely wrong in arguing that all leave voters want a Kate Hoey style Brexit. There is no evidence for that whatsoever, indeed I would argue that the majority of the voter both remain and leave as does parliament want a soft Brexit. One that secures their jobs and future.

A hard brexiter is Hoey. Willing to forgo all for the sake of a warped ideology

You forget that a majority of the British people agree with Kate Hoey. Those wanting OUT of the EU won.

How very imperious of you to suggest that only the Leave ideology is warped.

It obviously hasn't occured to your arrogant self that the majority of people in the UK believe that EU ideology is not only warped but dictatorial and undemocratic. And we pay billions for the privilege of adhering to it.

THAT is the other side of your argument but your EU blinkers prevent you from seeing it.

Something has to happen ww......whether it will be what I am happy about is another matter, but it’s too early to say.

There is a huge majority in Parliament if all colours for a soft Brexit. The point is that we can have a Good Friday Agreement or we can have a hard Brexit day6 but we can’t have both.

But I’m not holding my breath obvs

I still want to hear the Brexiteers condemn the rebel Tory MPs rather than the Labour MPs

So from your remarks day6 you are keen for a hard Brexit- well good luck with that one.

From your remarks lemon you are optimistic that something will happen

So what exact deal would you like to see lemongrove and Day6?
And how would you resolve the Irish border issue?

Ha ha ha. You tell us Maryeliza?

It's the lefty tactic of needing anyone who opposes them to write an essay giving their reasons why. Just like they wanted the electorate to explain how and why they'd voted in the referendum - and proving they'd been educated to degree level - before having their ballot slip accepted.

It won't wash anymore.

We were all aware that getting out of the EU would throw up a myriad of problems and questions. MPs, paid a darn sight more then I'll ever earn have been charged with sitting in on these meetings. They have to consider all the options, don't they? Given that Irish border issue has yet to be resolved, why pretend YOU, a Remainer, knows there is a definitive answer?

Your 'tell us' tactics just don't work any more.

Exactly! Well said.?

I love the way Remainers have absolutely no faith in the UK economy to survive without Brussels and the EU.

You can imagine these people having to ride a bike with stabilisers on it for the rest of their lives, or still swimming with a rubber ring and armbands as adults even though they've passed all their proficiency tests.

There are risks to leaving, of course there are but with member states in turmoil and unrest in many major cities of Europe as well as the rise of far right nationalist parties on the continent, I'd say there is a huge risk in clinging to the sinking EU ship.

As MP Kate Hoey says "Even the European Commission have said that 90% of the growth worldwide is outside the EU."

It has to be the sort of Leave that doesn’t hedge us around with so many EU restrictions that we can’t fight our way out.
I remain optimistic that negotiations will go well in the end,
Simply because both sides need it to.
However, I do think that MP’s themselves will be the ones causing problems and harming the UK, rather than the EU
Negotiators.

And what about the rebel Tory MPs betraying the British public? I thought we had a Tory Government and that Labour had lost the last election - but then what do I know?

So what exact deal would you like to see lemongrove and Day6?
And how would you resolve the Irish border issue?

What sort of leave?

‘ a warped ideology’ ? A Labour one perhaps, even Corbyn backs leaving the EU.IMHO he has had to listen to others and go against his instincts on this.
The PM voted to remain, but to her credit is doing what the majority voted for which is Leaving.

We will have to agree trade terms with EU anyway. No getting round that Day6.