Would Labour turn this country into a communist state?

Back to the topic - almost. A new book has been released called A New Politics from the Left? There is a review which gives an idea of the new politics of Labour here

I cannot see anything which says the LP is moving towards any idea of Communism as we would see in the Communist countries.

You are still trying to say that if one person thinks something others should do so and making this more personal than it needs to be.
Well, I don't know how you worked that out, because it's not what I posted.

But if that's how you want to interpret it, fair enough. I was just giving an example, but not saying what others should think - even if they very obviously did.

Heads in the sand about that period - an 'I was all right, Jack, so it didn't matter or wasn't as bad as claimed'

So what does that actually mean? Does it tell us why the strikes happened, what could have been done differently on all sides, what could be done to stop it happening again. Whether there is a better way to organise unions so the people who would be part of them feel more part of the democratic process. There is so much we could be discussing.

Your opinion does matter. However, slagging off those who do not agree with you as people "with their heads in the sand" or those who think "I'm alright Jack" is just a personal attack.

so it did!
Threads meander

However Maizie's op did seek ideas about what 'communism' means to people.

I find that the actual experiences of posters are most valuable for me to learn about, and they clothe any of my naked opinions.

The unions who kept Lord Robens in his post when he should have been sacked and supported the demand that my home village paid towards removal of tips which had killed our children, under a labour government , all because the unions had too much power over that labour government .

Saying nothing of the sort Gracesgran, it was just an observation.
Heads in the sand about that period - an 'I was all right, Jack, so it didn't matter or wasn't as bad as claimed' does not further the discussion or explain why the Tories had such a landslide victory.

Rampant inflation, pay restraints etc etc.

Sorry, I have to go out now but there is plenty documented and available out there if someone would like to provide some links.

It is no good giving my opinion about what went wrong as that would just be my opinion.

Obviously we each express an opinion. Some opinions are better than other opinions. Some opinions include ideas that may just possibly make politics more ethical. And that is why a forum like this is worthwhile for me. Just my opinion of course, and I have no idea what the webmaster who presumably is the arbiter intends for this or any other grans' forum.

I have never said I have privileged access to anyone, privileged access is a most unpleasant thought, never felt privileged in talking to anyone . I was thrilled to have a cup of tea with Desmond Tutu in a tent in Wales but didn't think it a privilege .

That's fine Jalima but how does it add to the discussion? You are still trying to say that if one person thinks something others should do so and making this more personal than it needs to be.

More important is the situations which created the strikes. I am not saying the union Leaders were blameless. However, if all the strikes bar one happened under a Tory government I am not sure what the argument is that lays blame at the door of the Labour government. Why and how you make that argument would be interesting.

The difference between that and the arguments being put forward is some posters are totally blaming the strikers in the 1970s and I do not.

Inflation of 26% and enforced pay restraints started the discontent.
In my opinion.

Even my DF, lifelong Labour supporter and former trade unionist, blamed the inept Labour Government.

Annie, you have told us lots of times about your privileged access to the upper echelons of the labour party.
It would have been weird if you hadn't got worked up about striking miners in South Wales.

Sigh!

In saying what I did MaizieD I assumed that posters were Sensible enough not to want

My problem is not with individual people Lemongrove and not with you as a person. It is with the arrogance and sheer bad manners in posters - any poster - thinking only their views are right, only they are sensible. I do disagree with some views and arguments put forward - and others disagree and argue with mine. Why the need to personalise comments in this way?

I have already said I do not want a return to major strikes and would add that I do not want any strike. The difference between that and the arguments being put forward is some posters are totally blaming the strikers in the 1970s and I do not.

Going forward I can see we are building up to the same sort of scenario. The government has suppressed wages, made working in some jobs almost unbearable and completely neglected some areas. I am not sure how else people can object to being treated like this and I expect that there will be strikes. However, I blame the government that does not appear to see their voters as human beings like themselves, not those who will feel their only way forward is to strike.

it's difficult to get worked up when it isn't happening in your part of the country , I never found it difficult

And a husband who has had to move because of the threat of redundancy.

If you've got two young children not at school and no television, it's difficult to get worked up about what is happening in London and Wales.
Same as you weren't bothered and still aren't bothered about the North East.

By the way, only one strike happened under a labour government, the winter of discontent, which brought in Thatcher.
So talking about all the bad things happening under a labour government is wrong.
The conditions many people are living in now are reminiscent of the reasons for the strikes under Heath.
We've had 7 years of austerity blamed on the profligacy of the labour government.
Time that the unions stuck up for themselves again, and got better pay for their members.
MPs have given themselves a big payrise. What about the people who work for them?

Cannot agree with you Maizie, to say we lived opposite a crematorium and there didn't seem to be a problem there is saying if it doesn't affect me it isn't a problem .

Some have forgotten the miners strike which badly affected South Wales was not a nationwide strike because there was not a national ballot, pits in parts of England continued working and Scargill didn't lose in house did he.

I am not going to get involved in another discussion of the strikes of the seventies, when the poster I have disagreed with on these strikes in the past has explained they didn't affect her

And we didn't have a television then.

That’s 40 years ago and different people.

It's not a question of shrugging shoulders and dismissing it, ab. All that is being said is that the situation in the 70s was nowhere near as bad as has been made out. While the public sector strikes affected some areas badly the effect was not the same countrywide. That's not "I'm alright Jack", it's just reflecting reality as opposed to the myths which have grown up about the period.

I was upset that dead were left unburied , that it wasn't happening where I lived didn't cause me to shrug my shoulders and dismiss it . All that rubbish in the streets can be dismissed because it didn't affect me ? Isn't this the very same attitude some accuse the more wealthy in this country have toŵards those less fortunate? Very - I'm alright Jack .

It was Liverpool where bodies were left unburied or uncremated. However, it was on the national news as were all the strikes so anyone who missed all that perhaps didn't have a tv, weren't affected - or were OK thanks.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/dec/30/liverpool-gravedigger-strikes

When Labour was elected in 1974 its manifesto promised, 'It is our intention to bring about a fundamental and irreversible shift in the balance of power and wealth in favour of working people and their families.' In fact the 1974-9 government imposed the greatest attacks on working class living standards since the hungry years of the 1930s.

Housing-by 1978 fewer council houses were being built than in any year since the Second World War.
Health-25,000 hospital beds went in the first two years of the Labour government.
Education-teachers suffered large scale redundancies for the first time in living memory.
Prices-doubled between February 1974 and December 1978.
Jobs-1,000 a day went in Labour's first three years.
Unemployment was 500,000 in 1974. It reached 1.6 million in 1976.
Wages-a family of four on average earnings was worse off in 1979 than in 1974.
Behind those cold statistics lay the shattered lives of millions of working people.

That's not from a Tory newspaper btw, that's from the Socialist Worker.