Would Labour turn this country into a communist state?

What is it about the 'communist beliefs' that concerns you, ab?

And what 'are' those communist beliefs? ( Please don't say 'marxism' because that won't take us any further forward in the discussion)

How do you think a labour government would turn this country into a communist state, Annie?
That was the question.

There is a big difference in being scared of communism and being concerned about a government with communist beliefs

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Gulags don't exist any more.
If gulags still exist, then so do our workhouses.
Both are historical.

It's a democratic socialist party and members/supporters believe in democracy.

But this seems to be what its non-supporters, and some former supporters, think is not true...

jura we are not Italy, and our politics is ( thankfully) nothing like theirs, or their way of doing things!

dj Do your really believe that the gulags no longer exist? That they have gone from modern Russia? Under Putin? Have a look at the number of people who oppose him who have been sent to prison on trumped up charges in distant parts of the country like Siberia. Those that are fortunate enough not to be murdered, die in accidents, be beaten up by gangsters, that is.

Exactly.

Of course the answer to my 'choice' above, is 'neither' - for sure.

And some say we should not even mention fascism- and yet- things can change very quickly, if things go belly up with Brexit, and the Pound does tank and 1000s more jobs are lost- especially in the areas with the highest % of Leave voters- which are likely to suffer the most- and more susceptible to influences from the Far Right- like BF and the BNP, and UKIP. Farage has made open threats again and again- about civil unrest - and he is getting ready to stir people up- he admits it himself- and made it very clear again on Question Time last Thursday.

Just look at what is happening NOW in Italy - fascism is definitely on the rise, and openly so - and I dread the results of the elections. Are you saying this could NOT and would NOT possibly happen in post Brexit or no Brexit UK?

www.itv.com/news/2018-02-26/restaurant-diners-make-fascist-salutes-as-italian-election-dominated-by-immigration-debate/

This is a totally hypothetical situation. Labour isn't a revolutionary nor a Communist party. It's a democratic socialist party and members/supporters believe in democracy.

Thanks, Fennel

Both examples involved violence and the deaths or long term imprisonment of 'opposition' figures.

No countries transitioning peacefully from mature democracy to communist state, though?

2 other examples of Communist take-over/ revoltion:
China in 1946 - chairman Mao.
Cuba in 1962-5 - Castro
These revolutions end up with one person having total power over the population.

It would be good to hear from primrose, as she obviously thinks revolution and the gulag still exist.

It is a good question though. If no one has ever said or implied that we are on the road to a revolution - what are some posters afraid of?

It would be interesting to have an explanation from those who throw this word about quite frequently as we could then understand a little more about their view of politics.

Even lemongrove says it will not happen, Maizie, so obviously it will not.

OK. It's been asserted several times on here that no-one has said that labour government would try to establish a communist state.

If this is so, why are people so scared of them?

Looking at it at another angle- would you prefer to live in a Communist or Fascist country?

The situation would never be that binary though would it. You would also have an opportunity to fight for democracy. I have no idea why you wouldn't suggest that as a choice. There is nothing to decide between none democratic extremes. I cannot believe anyone on here would not defend our democracy in every way possible.

Having said that we need to heed the warning of the past - where good people did nothing. Either evil could then take hold if we allowed this to happen again.

It’s true that ‘power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely’ or something like that.

History tells us that they are both murderous regimes.

Stalin, Hitler both killed millions of their population for a skewed ideology.

I agree, m0nica. Both are authoritarian and therefore undesirable.

Nothing to choose between them. Either way I would probably be among those dispatched to the Gulag.

Neither, jura. Perhaps communist if push came to shove...

Looking at it at another angle- would you prefer to live in a Communist or Fascist country?

Looking at the history if the Russian Revolution I think it wasn't Marxism or communism, was more like opportunism than anything else... They were in the middle of fighting WW1, for a start.

But it's true that true communism is usually associated with a radical regime change, very often accompanied by violence. And it usually seems to occur in countries that have experienced huge inequalities and no established democratic government.

I don't know if anyone has any examples of it happening any other way?

I thought that pure communism involved the gathering together of the "workers" to organise the overthrow of the existing ruling class in a violent manner. As in Russia in 1917.
Or is that Marxism?
Maybe not such a bad idea at the moment .
But certainly there cold be a return to nationalisation of main industries and services.