Italian Voters Reject the EU - Eurosceptic parties win Italian election.

(That was to your previous comment Day)

Fennel 6th March 17:48
Centre political groups are in electoral decline worldwide as large sections of society in numerous states are no longer finding answers to their problems in centre political thinking in regard to the decline in their expectations and living standards.

As is being discussed in this thread, Italy in recent days has seen the electoral growth of "hard right" political parties and the decline of centrist parties. In the foregoing I believe the election result is a protest vote against "the establishment" rather than any real belief in the "neo fascist" policies of some of the parties that achieved success in the poll.

History easily points us to where hardship has brought forward the extreme in politics (by example, Germany and Italy in the 1930s and Russia in 1917). Those developments brought instability and conflict worldwide and if the present political trends continue similar problems are very likely to manifest themselves once again.

For centrist political thinking to succeed it must demonstrate that it can provide employment and employment security, a reasonable standard of income for its working population, accessible secure housing at reasonable cost and limit inequality across the population.

Sadly, in recent years, many governments in leading democratic country's have not provided the above to their populations and in that we are witnessing the decline of consensus politics to the detriment and security of all

Please ignore the "Fennel date and time in the above post as I was to reply to him in another thread and omitted to remove it from my text app

MaizieD -"It should also be noted that the extent of Italian Euroscepticism varies according to which of the UK newspapers you're reading. I think Leavers are reading far more into this election result than is likely..."

You may console yourself with that view, but like it or not, two anti-EU parties polled the most votes in the Italian election, causing a massive upset.

I have yet to find a report which dismisses the result as you do. I can understand you trying to find some consolation and playing it down, but it is significant.

The most neutral articles discuss the decline of the traditional left v right voting patterns, agreeing the populist vote is on the rise.

From Reuters : "Power has crashed down in Italy – in two senses. First and clearest. The two parties that supported democracy’s conventional division – left v. right – failed in Sunday’s inconclusive election in the euro zone’s third-largest economy."

" For the European Union, the outcome is all bad

The winning parties are, in varying degrees, euro-sceptic if not euro-hostile. The victors will not – nor can they – ignore the popular tide of disillusionment with the EU which put them there. "

"The second crash is the power that now descends on the victors – led, unquestionably, by the 5-Star movement founded less than a decade ago by the comedian and satirist, Beppe Grillo. The movement has benefited from being indescribable – and thus being a vessel which the disillusioned can fill with their hopes."

uk.reuters.com/article/us-lloyd-italy-commentary/commentary-what-italys-power-crash-means-for-the-eu-idUKKBN1GH2M1

Grandad1943
Thank you for pointing out that the majority of these voters aren't neo-fascists.
I stated this on another thread but it was dismissed.
The majority are just ordinary folk who are very unhappy with their lot.

The ordinary folk would be very unhappy with their lot, apparently unemployment in parts of the south is 50%.

Yes, a bit like the U.K. haves vs the have nots.

I remember a few years back we used to say “Come the revolution” quite a lot when talking of how things should be. Perhaps at last it’s coming!

Grandad, I'd agree with much of your post, but what has been mentioned time and time again, and is something you didn't mention, is high levels of unemployment in Italy, especially amongst the young.

There's lots of anger and hardship and in such circumstances traditional choices are swept aside for something different. As mentioned in the article I posted (up there somewhere) new parties which recognise
problems become 'the vessel for disillusionment'.

NfkDumpling
Exactly. 'The system' isn't working for them, is it? So where can they protest, in the voting booth.
These voters aren't just angry with the eu, they are angry with the eastern block countries with their refusal to take migrants. Another headache for the eu

The 'system' might not be working for them but as it currently stands it won't work inside or outside the EU. In fact, as in the UK, the 'protesters' are even more likely to suffer outside the EU than in it.

What is interesting is that 5Star is a completely maverick new party; its policies have swung about and itapparently hasn't made a particularly good job of governing Rome, which doesn't bode well for it being in government. Apart from being 'populist' it defies classification. Which poses a problem for commentators. and probably for Italy, too.

But Greece had a similar setup and they're still in the EU, and, experiencing growth...

Greece are hardly doing well, I wouldn’t hold them up for inspection if I were you!

I agree that the problems of the middle East are being exported to European Union states. In the foregoing the problems it is creating for the EU have to be solved in the middle Eastern countries which have become so unstable.

Therefore, a far greater effort by the European Union is required as extreme groups within the EU will play up the migration problems to levels far higher than in all probability they actually are and in that they gain power.

I believe what we are witnessing is instability being the cause of further instability whether that is actual or just perceived.

Grandad1943
Interesting that you refer to European countries as 'European union States'
These are Countries in their own right with their own leaders/laws and parliaments.

Is a country not a state, petra? I'd always thought the words were more or less synonymous.

Greece are doing better than us growth wise, lemon.

Italians always hate their politicians. They are deeply suspicious of any sort of authority and I doubt if this lot will be any more successful.

On a lighter note, today I have read three terms for Italy leaving the EU - should that ever happen.

Pasta la vista baby

ItaliaNO

and

Quitaly.

I found them inventive and amusing. There will be more, no doubt.

Greece has massive unemployment and all sorts of problems and should never have been admitted to the EU.
When they had thousands of migrants arriving they could hardly cope, but nothing helpful from the EU came their way.

As we are going to Rome this year, will be very interested to see what the locals are saying.

The economy of Greece is the 48th largest in the world, the 16th in the EU.
The economy of the UK is the 6th largest in the world, the 2nd largest in Europe.

Greece's economy may be growing but it is still nowhere near that of the UK. However, give it a few decades who knows? Wouldn't it be good if it overtook Germany!
In my opinion.

I have lived in Italy, speak Italian and have Italian family. I visit at least twice a year. I stay in a rural part of Italy in the north, not far from Milan. In my family, opinion is divided, but most support the EU. They realise that life isn’t easy in some parts of the country, but there is still a feeling that the south is almost a different country and the people are seen as foreigners. Italy has a short history as a united country and loyalties seem to be more local. The populist parties are not that rooted in the more prosperous areas and they are often dismissed as thugs or playing to the uneducated. Remember Mussolini was elected by popular vote and I am not that surprised that you can still find market stalls selling pictures of him. Manipulation by media is far more blatant here. Not good news for political stability. Many people believe the government will struggle to gain a workable majority and they will be having another election soon.

Thanks for that, Gerispringer.

Yes Geri far right or far left movements always come about through the popular vote.
Once in power they can either stay a very long time or do damage for a while and then get booted out.

The EU is not as popular in many countries now, due mainly to the free movement of people, especially from Eastern Europe.The EU made a huge mistake in allowing those countries to join.