Russian spy attempted murder - what should the UK do?

I am afraid I am very wary of any statement made by any governmet that accuses another country of something. I seem to remember a "dodgy dossier" that took us into an unjust war. That involved chemical weapons as well - imaginary ones.

made made me

I'm not sure how we're ever going to be certain of exactly who did it.

And therein lies the reason why we must "tread softly and carry a big stick" rather than rushing in with the big stick too quickly.

It will certainly allow May to sort out the issues with our financial system and our property market but she really should have done that without any excuse. The UK having a harder response to state sponsored wars re Russia would have made rather more proud of my country than the extremes some people are coming up with now.

Many (not all of course) of the wealthy Russians in the UK are gangsters and money launderers. There are all sorts of dodgy characters who have bought up property in the UK, some are definitely in alignment with Putin. This has been known about for years. May said she was going to tackle this problem, and I wholeheartedly support her in this (I'm not holding my breath though)

Im looking forward to our government freezing the assets of those Russian oligarchs who have bought up swathes of luxury apartments in London which are left empty while they swan around on their yachts in the med.

All those except anyone who has paid into Tory Party coffers I expect Geri.

I'm not sure how we're ever going to be certain of exactly who did it. If it was the Russian state behind it, as seems most likely, they are never in a million years going to admit it.

According to experts on these matters, it would be virtually impossible to manufacture any such substance without purpose-built, specialist facilities, otherwise anyone trying would almost certainly end up killing themselves in the process.

So it does point to state-sponsored action, and you do have to wonder who else but the Russian state would want to kill its own traitors?
Though of course (as I've seen on another forum lately) the conspiracy-theorists are all charging out of the woodwork, saying of course it was the CIA...

I'm not sure Putin would be at all bothered if we kicked all the oligarchs out, either - aren't many of them only here in the first place because already they were not on his Christmas card list?

Im looking forward to our government freezing the assets of those Russian oligarchs who have bought up swathes of luxury apartments in London which are left empty while they swan around on their yachts in the med.

Sadly Britain tends to love a war. It is said that Thatcher was saved by the Falklands War. I do hope the way that people are presenting as "facts" things they believe or would, it seems, hope to be true, does not influence the government politically.

I wonder how all those new members of the LP feel? I wonder if they want to head for another war, cold or hot? It will be interesting to see.

Annie; not sure why you refer to DA calling it that. Everyone was calling it exactly that yesterday. Journalists and people from all parties were calling it that. My daughter and I were trying to decide last night whether "The Incident in Salisbury" was more Paul Temple or Miss Marple. As DD didn't know anything about Paul Temple it was a short discussion.

Geri ‘ I’m sure we don’t go around poisoning double agents’.......exactly!
In any case, there is no point to a spy swap if one country is then going to kill them and all their family one by one.
Of course we know who the spies posing as diplomats are.

MaizieD
The detective now in hospital was exposed to traces of this nerve agent and although he is able to talk ( after presumably been given an antidote) his colleagues say that he isn’t the person they knew.This is terrible for him and his family.
Since everybody else since then has been wearing protective
suits and intensive cleaning has been going on, this should be now all contained.
It’s only chance that more haven’t been affected.

Its not a question of "preferring Putin" certainly not, but acknowledging that the UK haven't been squeaky clean either. How come we suddenly know that 20 or so Russian diplomats are intelligence officers? We must have known , but maybe we have intelligence officers in Russia as well? Im sure we don't go around poisoning double agents, but why have we have allowed Russian gangsters and money launderers to base themselves in the UK?

We can all calm down, Diane Abbott has referred to it as 'the incident in Salisbury '

You are so right niggly.

The trouble is lemon, that the West has allowed Putin to behave as he pleases for years on end with only a token squeak of protest. I suppose the truth is we're all afraid of Russia and feel we must bend over backwards to appease her for fear of what the end game almost certainly would be. What will he do next? will he invade - Estonia for example, then what?!!! Like monsters before him, we're afraid of this monster and, bearing in mind history, with good reason.

In a British town, where mere traces can be deadly.

Well, that's a weird thing, isn't it lemon? Because traces of it haven't proved to be deadly, have they?

I'm not at all discounting Putin as being responsible; I just don't believe that enough evidence will have been gathered in 2 weeks to definitely prove it. And, it is absolutely feasible that other nations have been able to produce the same nerve agent.

Putin has had too many years of doing anything he likes,
What do people think of him supporting Assad with barrel bombing with chemicals, whole Syrian towns?
Taking over the Crimea?
We may not be able to do anything about those things but
We can put the spotlight on Putin in a small way that he won’t like.

I don't think dj is arguing with herself, POGS. I think in the case of the petition she was just expressing surprise that a topic so much in the forefront of the news, and encompassing a possible physical threat to the UK , seems to have generated surprisingly little interest in the petition.

That's how I read it.

Where is the logic in preferring to believe Putin and all things Russian over the UK government and counter terrorism units, MI5 MI6?
Russian ‘traitors’ are of no interest to anyone but Russia.
Attacked with a deadly nerve agent in a method known to be used by the Russians.In a British town, where mere traces can be deadly.
Unlikely that the two main victims will live, and the detective may never be the same again either.

We seem to be heading back to the Cold War. I read that the nerve agent used was so deadly that the merest exposure will affect a person for life, so even if those poor folks survive they will never be themselves again as it affects memory, brain function etc. I can’t believe that questioning the government on here leads to an accusation of being pro Russian. Where is the logic in that? Chilling.

I was looking at RT today and it was very interesting. I don't see it as unbiased, but then I don't see any TV stations as unbiased, but it can provide a different perspective.

What exactly are the grounds for banning RT? Isn't it censorship? When other countries like China stop people from accessing information, many people in the UK and elsewhere are, quite rightly, critical and say that Chinese people are being denied the right to make their own investigations and form their own opinions.

durhamjen

Are you not arguing with yourself as yesterday you put up a link that says :-

' why the Tories are so desperate to ban Russia Today'.

Now you put up a link where you say :-

" I would have expected more signatures on this by now, particularly Tory ones."

Your link to the Early Day Motion 1052 which is dominated by signatures of Labour MP's is asking for:-

That this House notes with deep concern the allegations of Russian involvement in assassination attempts on UK soil, the illegal occupation of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, the human rights record of the Russian Government and especially the treatment of journalists, and the use of Russia Today as a propaganda outlet for the Russian Government; therefore calls on the Parliamentary authorities to remove Russia Today from the in-house broadcasting system; urges hon. Members not to undertake interviews for Russia Today; and calls on Ofcom to review Russia Today's UK broadcasting license.

Out of interest do you ever concern yourself that some links you put on GN such as the one @ 21.47 is safe to use not only for yourself but for the GN posters who click on your link?

Do you ever wonder if some links are to malicious BOTS and both you and any GN'er who clicks onto that link can do so safely ?

"Following on from my earlier article, below is the statement made yesterday – March 13 – by Ambassador Alexander Shulgin to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons at the Hague. I agree that the UK government need to abandon the “the language of ultimatums and threats and return to the legal framework of the chemical convention, which makes it possible to resolve this kind of situation.” "

This is where May should take her evidence. Then the world will be sure of the truth.

Just listening to a paper review re May.

Guest 1 She doesn't really have allies that she can go to to put together any real package that might really get Moscow's attention. So to some extent I think it's bluster and with the reaction we've seen from the Russians today, I think they kind of know that.

Guest 2 We saw France sort of hedging it's bets somewhat today and then the US were very, very strong at the security council tonight just before we came on air. This will play out over the next few weeks. For me I think it's the last thing Theresa May needs. I mean, she's got a stuttering economy, Brexit, implosion of the Tory Party and now she's got the worst relations with Russia since 1985. I mean she can't buy any luck. The key thing is how Russia retaliates, what it does tomorrow.

www.parliament.uk/edm/2017-19/1052

I would have expected more signatures on this by now, particularly Tory ones.

If May is so certain, why will she not show to the Russians that she has this nerve agent?
The Russians cannot prove that they haven't done it. A negative is impossible to prove.