Russian spy attempted murder - what should the UK do?

Quote[Gerispringer.....snip
Did May think that by giving an ultimatum to the Russian government they were going to say "oops, sorry, it was us"? Of course they wont admit it, and we haven't got any hard evidence other than circumstantial as far as we know......snip] End Quote

I believe no one expected the Russian government to outright admit that they carried out the attack in Salisbury. However, they could easily have expressed sympathy with those caught up in the war like attack. However, rather than the foregoing the Russian media under heavy influence from the Government just came forward with statements of insult and derision to those caught up in the attack.

In the foregoing the Russian Embassy was even worse in its statements of mocking, therefore demonstrating that it wished this country and the world to witness that Russia could carry out any action, in any country in the world without fear of response.

In the House of Commons today (14th March) all parties across the floor came out in full support of the Goverment and its action in response. That goverment has all the evidence in this matter and I believe we must put trust in that and also as a nation our full support.

This is not the time for "quisling" words from any political party or group of persons, for that will only invite further attack.

This is another cold war.

Did May think that by giving an ultimatum to the Russian government they were going to say "oops, sorry, it was us"? Of course they wont admit it, and we haven't got any hard evidence other than circumstantial as far as we know. So its he said, she said. In her statement she claimed we were not going to harbour gangsters, those with dodgy money etc, I quite agree but why have we harboured such people up to now? I don't think we are squeaky clean and I find the whole situation worrying.

As can be seen on other threads I am very much no supporter of this government. However, it is the British government that has the full evidence in regard to the events in Salisbury. This government has given the Russian Government the opportunity to explain how a nerve agent developed in that country came to be used in Britain, or if they feel there was a loss of control in security of holding, how that loss came about.

In the above the Russian government has responded with mocking derision and insult to those suffering severe illness and also the threat to the emergency services attending the scene following the attack.

Action against the Russian government is very nessicary not only for the use of an agent developed in their country, but also now in regard to their response to this incident.

In this I believe Russia was sending a message to Britain and the World that they can act in any way they choose on other countries soil, that is why a nerve agent was used as Russia wanted the world to know it's position, hence also it's derogatory response

I find myself happy to believe the information given to the government by those who work so hard for us on these things. I am not even actually sure why some of you are challenging this information at this point. It is strange to be asked by people who, unless they are hiding their light under a the proverbial bushel, are telling us that their opinion, made from an ignorance of facts in this instance, is one we should pay more heed to than one coming from people who base their judgement on knowledge, both of the science and the situation they are investigating. Surely, at this point we should be listening and hearing what the experts tell us.

Sorry it isn't and we don't Grandad1943. Although I suppose you could say that this is a hiighly convenient incident for Mrs May and her party ,who were really scraping the barrel for support, to try and convince us that we should. Personally I think it's highly doubtful who did it and what the motives really were. There are much more efficient ways of killing people you want rid of. And some can be just as agonising if that was what you were after.

The British government has stated that there is "overwhelming" evidence that the Russian state has been involved in a "close act of war". There are times when as a nation we have to get behind the elected government of this country as the alternative is to present a divided face to those who would see yet more dangerous and dispicable acts carried out on British soil.

But there is no proof that the murder attempt was carried out by the Russians. As bmacca noted earlier, why would Putin invite pressure from 'the West'?

There seems to be reason to believe that the nerve agent that has been implicated could equally well have been developed by the US, the UK or even Israel, with information passed to them by Russian agents. The US is actually involved in decommissioning the labs in which it was developed.

This blogger has a reasonable argument for not implicating Russia:

From Putin’s point of view, to assassinate Skripal now seems to have very little motivation. If the Russians have waited eight years to do this, they could have waited until after their World Cup. The Russians have never killed a swapped spy before. Just as diplomats, British and otherwise, are the most ardent upholders of the principle of diplomatic immunity, so security service personnel everywhere are the least likely to wish to destroy a system which can be a key aspect of their own personal security; quite literally spy swaps are their “Get Out of Jail Free” card. You don’t undermine that system – probably terminally – without very good reason.

www.craigmurray.org.uk/

Grandad1943if you have any actual evidence that Russia supplied the nerve gas and delivered it please could you post this. As far as I know the only known facts are that this gas originated a considerable time ago in Russia and the people involved were ex-Russians. Oh and the Russians think it is funny that it happened in the UK
Just because Mrs May says it is doesn't make it so you know. If there isn't the evidence it really isn't helpful to make accusations (although the ex-Russians funding the party might encourage her to)

I believe Britain and other nations that support this country in applying reciprocal action against Russia for the use of a nerve agent on British soil may well find themselves involved in a new cold war in the very near future. Putin and his government have been given much encouragement in recent years in believing that acts of aggression can be carried out on foreign soil without risk of any meaningful reciprocal action being carried out against Russia.

In the above, I would cite the Russian invasion of the Crimea, the downing of an airliner over the Ukraine and it's continuing action to destabilise former Soviet Block countries surrounding the Russian Federation borders. Therefore, on this occasion i believe the British government in stating that without doubt Russia is responsible for the nerve agent attack in Salisbury.

Britain has received nothing but "mocking" comments from the heavily state influenced Russian media and the remarks from the Russian Embassy in London have been nothing short of a total insult to those suffering pain, ill health and distress following the Salisbury attack. Therefore, I feel the current policy of "appeasement" towards what has become a dangerous rogue state by Europe and the United States must now come to an end.

In the above, I believe that there is much in common with the policy of "avoiding confrontation at all cost" applied by Britain and other European countries in the 1930s, and a similar policy carried out in recent years towards Russia.

That appeasement policy failed in the 1930s, it again has failed now.

France, Germany, and all the Baltic States are supporting us. Nato is too. That's not nothing.

One thing is for sure, Brexit is leaving us very lonely, weak and isolated - with our so-called ally Trump going for 'Murica first' and using our so called special relationship to try and suck us dry, one way or another.

With the challenges ahead of us, us becoming isolated as a little island floating up Narf ... is NOT a good idea. We more than ever need to be part of a strong entitity called Europe.

So it's absolutely fine for us to have nerve agents used in our streets in innocent country towns? Let's just obfuscate matters by blaming the government shall we? That'll do the trick. Sarcasm alert.
This is a really dangerous situation. That this sort of thing can casually be done is unacceptable. I hope that May can come up with a response that has a significant effect on Russia.

Hummm I don’t think we have much to congratulate ourselves with in the fields of drugs and cycling. IMO most professional sport is tainted by the use of drugs across most ( if not all) countries - it’s the degrees of sophistication employed that varies and the ethical interpretations of the rules

Here, if it comes to light, we do something about it durhamjen Russian state funded sports laugh at us.

Haven't you realised yet, trisher, we're allowed to do it but they are not?

No, nothing like our cyclists trisher because Russia has been doing this on a grand scale since year dot.
But carry on being an apologist for the Russians.

lemongrove
^Russia has been allowed to host far too much, their sportsmen are often ( very often) found to be cheating by taking performance enhancing drugs^- bit like our cyclists then?
Nerve gas was used by Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war. They were supplied mostly by the west but I don't see why there shouldn't be some Russian stuff knocking about as well. The idea that the country that developed a weapon must be the country that supplied it is ludicrous.

evolvepolitics.com/watch-an-ex-mi5-agent-just-showed-precisely-why-the-tories-are-so-desperate-to-ban-russia-today-video/

There's a lot more going to come out in this.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/13/russian-exile-nikolai-glushkov-found-dead-at-his-london-home

Strangled.

I suppose that Browder has nothing to lose any more by telling his story on the radio, bmacca, just as he had nothing to lose by writing the book.
He knew Putin could be after him, so he had to tell people what happened.
James O'Brien is very brave.

Jalima, I was wondering the self same thing. Did someone in Russia give Yulia a gift for her father. His favourite Vodka for instance. This novichok nerve agent exists in several forms, so could be carried as a liquid. It seems rather fishy to me that they were both affected. I also wonder how many enemies Skripol had. It's extremely worrying, no matter what.

durhamjen, it's interesting, I think I did hear some of it last year. A friend has the book - Browder, Bill (2015). Red Notice: A True Story of High Finance, Murder, and One Man’s Fight for Justice, which I will get to read. I think it just raises more questions about taking money from Russians, as it's so hard to know who is involved with what and whether it's legal/ethical

bmacca, listen to the soundcloud. The last 20 minutes is about Magnitsky, etc.

Although Putin is certainly capable of such an act, there would appear to be little mileage in it for him at this time. Putin is aware that the US, the UK and NATO want him gone. Would he help to give them excuses to step up pressure upon him as this incident has done?
Perhaps Putin is guilty. Yet the evidence needs to be gathered and irrefutable proof presented. That has not been done and Russia has already been condemned. The US appears to be looking for an excuse to up the war in Syria, and it would not be beyond them to use the UK to manufacture increased pressure on Russia